I'm loosing heart in deck restoration...

This is a long posting in which I am sharing some frustration and disappointment after my first year in this industry.

I am truly starting to question my choice to become involved in deck sealing. This is my second year and I am learning quickly that 'the whole truth' about this business is not being spoken on these boards. So, for those who are new to this, you would do well to read this post. I lost money in my first year and, A PART of the reason, was not having the full story on the sealers I was using.

For example, several decks I did last year did not achieve a uniform finish - unacceptable to me and of course my customers. I used Cuprinol UV Sunblock after researching it and hearing good things about it. We clean the decks well and then apply with care using a spray applicator (both Deckhand style and airless) and always backbrush. In many cases stripping was involved beforehand. We rinsed well and carefully watched the weather so it was suitable for sealing.

I am now attempting to find a better product and this is frustrating. Obviously you can't buy on the advice of a salesperson. Only the users can tell you the truth. However, I was about to try Wolman F&P but received an email from someone who has used it repeatedly (yrs) and they are not happy with the uniformity of the finish. Meanwhile, if you read the boards, others rave about it (like some did with Cuprinol). So what is the truth? And I can count on responses to this posting saying "oh you gotta try "x" sealer - it is amazing." You know what my response to that will be! Perhaps the problem is different sealers work better on different woods under different conditions. If that is true, then why don't people say it! As a result, I feel misinformed, even misled, by these forums, not helped by them. I have found similar things on these boards in other deck related matters. For example, everyone, it seems, quotes decks on the basis of deck square footage and the railings and ballusters are something that is treated as an aside. That is completely backward to me. In most cases, deckboards are much faster and simlpler to do.

We need information about the bigger picture....where things fail, what doesn't work, etc. not just things that give the impression that deck sealing is the best thing since sliced bread (which is exactly the 'overall' impression I got as an outsider just over a year ago). Perhaps these bulletin boards can not accomplish what I need.......which is a more organized listing where contractors state what sealers work best on what wood under what conditions, among other variables, and the same for other products and equipment, etc. The information may be there, but few people have the time to do extensive word searches and read lists of postings.

So I am left with this challenge of finding a sealer or sealers that actually work. Nonetheless, any help would be appreciated ..... as long as it gives the whole picture!!

And on that note let me say that one product I did have good success with was Biowash Natural Deck Oil......specifically on well weathered, previously untreated, PT wood. It was consistently uniform. I had less success on newer PT wood and it I found it required too much fussy preparation on cedar, especially if the wood had been stripped - it case that helps anyone who needs it.



------------------
Stephen

Hi Stephen,
Your post was very well written and to the point. I have been in the wood restoration business longer than most of the others on this forum. ( Started in 1965 ) Have you ever heard the phrase " Jack of all trades, master of none"? In the wood restoration business, and I use the word "restoration", you cannot be a jack of all trades. In order to be a master in this field, you have to live it. There are only 5 people ( including myself ) in the US that are masters. I might add that none of us do decks anymore. Wood restoration is a 60 billion dollar a year industry. Everyone is wanting to tap into it, but not very many have the knowledge or the determination to excell in it.

From what I have read on this forum, I am picking up the impression that everyone thinks that wood restoration is an easy way to make a lot of fast money. To restore a deck properly, is a lot of work. Your not going to get rich at it, but it will give you a good income. You are not going to find a good deck finish on the retail shelves. These products are made to sell and resell to the consumer. Yes, the professional products do cost more. The home made cleaners and strippers do not work as well as the professional cleaners and strippers. If some one says they do, then that some one does not know what a clean deck should look like. Preparing a deck or any other wood substrate for finishing, is more important than the product that you plan to apply. Prep is the number one cause of product failure.

If you want to be a pressure washer, be a pressure washer. If you want to excell in the wood restoration business let me know and I'll help you all I can. We are in need of people who are willing to put the time and effort into the field of wood restoration. Take care, talk with you later.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

<FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Jim Bilyeu on May 05, 2000 ]</font>

Stephen, I am sorry that you are so frustrated. I understand as a relative newbie myself into the business. Everyone under the sun has the best product..."Here buy this and it will work like nothing you have ever see"...HA! Ok, I admit it, I have bought several products that have not performed like the salesperson said they would. I am not out to make a million...and don't think this would be the way to do it. And I hate spending money on products that don't do what they say they would do. But, I agree, I have also been told on this board and others certain products have worked for them. When I buy them they "don't" work for me. I have spent my share of money, money that was hard earned. It is disappointing. But, I have progressed. Have found some products that work better than others. I have done alright in my baby stage of learning. I have worked hard, read as much as I could, come to boards like this and have learned from the mistakes of others and have made my own mistakes. I have finally found some things that work for me here in this area with the type of wood that is used. We have been proud of the jobs we have done. We hope to move to full time soon both in the pressure washing business and decks. We see ourselves moving toward the home care specialist kinda thing. We can clean everything from roofs to decks to driveways and even windows. Jim, I know this does not meet your standard of being a "master" in my craft. I have to say I took offense with your comment about either be a pressure washer or do decks. You can't do both is what I got from that. I disagree. Decks have been around a long long time and will continue to be around with people like me cleaning them. I will do my very best to gain the knowledge to do them right as I also gain the knowledge of cleaning their house and driveways. Well, I know this is a long post. Stephen, don't give up. There are many many folks on this board that will bend over backwards to be of help to you. Jim included, he has helped me. Try and remember the big picture in life. Sit on the front porch and smile at the sun.
Dennis

------------------
Living Life On the Edge Makes Us Dizzy...WE LOVE DIZZY!

Dennis A. Cormier and Gloria A. Wagner
North Georgia Spray Masters, Inc.
spraymasters@hotmail.com

Dennis,
It is obvious that you did not read my post correctly. What I said was, "if you want to be a pressure washer, be a pressure washer. If you want to excell in the wood restoration business, let me know and I'll help you all I can".

The pressure washing business and the wood restoration business are as differant as night and day. One word might mean one thing to a pressure washer while it may have a total differant meaning to some one in the wood restoration business.

Anyone can pressure wash a deck and throw some sealer on it. that's why there's so many people doing it. Out of all these people, how many are doing it right? How many know why their doing it, other than for the money? How many know what products to use and why? How many can read a MSDS or a TDS.

If you want to excell in either, pressure washing or wood restoration, you have to choose a direcion in which to go. Even on this forum you have "pressure washing" and you have "wood only" why, because they are differant.

In the wood restoration business, things change every day. In order to stay on top of things, I work 8 to 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, in the field, and them I spend 2 to 4 more hours a day, 5 days a week and 8 to 10 hours on saterday, in the office reading about new products and new findings in the wood industry. How many hours do you put into research in the pressure washing business?

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

First off, Steven, welcome to the board, your first post was, well, strong. Hang in there, 1 year is not nearly long enough to learn the ins and outs to wood restoration. I am looking for that wonder sealer also. I have my preferences, just like everyone else. I will offer about the only advice i have on the subject of wood and that is, I believe that sealers/stains are very important to obtain the desired look and expectations of a deck, but more important is the preparation of the deck before the stain is ever bought. I have learned, and in not much more time than you, that if the deck is not cleaned, prepared, and babied correctly, then it is irrelevant what sealer/stain you use. Perhaps your cleaning method is lacking, providing a less than desirable starting point for the sealers? I dont know, just offering you the possibility that i learned myself. I am still working on achieving that perfect cleaning method, and i probably always will.

Second, Jim, you and i must be reading a different board. I have chatted with, and ready messages from the "core" group on this board, and i havent ever came to the impression anyone on here thinks anything comes easy in our business, especially wood being a get quick rich sideline business. Sorry, not bashing, but i have never came to that conclusion. I enjoy reading everyones posts, and have picked up a lot on this board, thanks to Dan and his unselfish effort to bring us all together.

Craig

"In the wood restoration business, things change every day. In order to stay on top of things, I work 8 to 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, in the field, and them I spend 2 to 4 more hours a day, 5 days a week and 8 to 10 hours on saterday, in the office reading about new products and new findings in the wood industry. How many hours do you put into research in the pressure washing business? Jim Bilyeu Exterior Woodcare " ~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think that this bears out the beauty of owning a business... set your own agenda.
Jim spends about 75 hours each week in his business, after decades at it. Others may look at that as the business running them rather than running a business. One benefit from all of this, other than the money, is the flexibility, to play with the kids, give back to the community, to mentor others who want to start a service business, etc.
Personally, I love to see the debate and discussion between owners here...it reminds us to challenge ourselves and avoid the ruts of business. Keep it up !! DAVE

Hi Stephen,


Welcome to the world of self-employment. After reading through all of the above posts I could agree and disagree with many of the comments made. Which just proves everyone has their own opinion and system that works for them. While the help on these forums is readily available you cant start and run your business from them. Before we started into the field of wood restoration I researched cleaners, sealers, methods, etc. for 2 years and believe me... the research has yet to stop after many years of providing services. Your constantly trying to keep up with the new technology when it comes to products and methods. Many times the only way to know what works for you is to try it and then determine if this this the preferred method or product. Thats how you build a business.... trial and error. It will require a large effort on your part to get your company where you want it to be and operating smoothly. We started as a pressure washing service and later added the wood restoration. Now wood restoration is 70% of our business so that is where we are concentrating our efforts. Who would of thought?

Good Luck,
Greg



------------------
Greg Rentschler
GCR PowerClean
www.gcrpowerclean.com
NEW E-Mail address: GCR PowerClean@cs.com

Gentlemen,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my somewhat 'strong' email posting. I have found value in the postings.

I can't say that I have a 'passion' for wood restoration.....at least not at this particular point. What I can say is that I am faced with a challenge that is now looking me squarely in the face.......new prospects for decks to clean and seal and a few decks from last season to 'fix up.'

It may be that my wood preparation processes are lacking. My knowledge of the best/proper sealers to use is most definitely lacking. While I would find it quite engaging to 'get into' the philosophy of this industry and small business as a whole (I'm quite purpose driven as a person), I need practical help at present. So to the point: I have 2 white cedar decks I did with Cuprinol about 8 months ago that need to be 'fixed up.' The Cuprinol 'experts' say "no go" with Cuprinol again so soon unless I strip, but I could go over top with an oil base sealer (in their words, the oil base will bite thru the CUV and grip into the wood)

Question: Can I go over the CUV with an oil base to rememdy (ie make more uniform) these decks or must I strip them first?

Question: Almost all the jobs I bid on are PT or cedar. What sealer/stains do you find work best on these types of wood (with any qualifying comments)? Our climate here would be comparable to Ohio, Penn., NY states in the US.

We are quite thorough about the cleaning methods we use, but could be unaware of some important key things so any input about cleaning would be appreciated.

I would be more than willing to communicate directly by email or phone if that is more suitable with some.

Thanks again for your encouragement and thoughts.

sjc@icom.ca

------------------
Stephen

First let me say this, No offence intended.

But if you re-read your post, you will find that you are pretty frustrated, which is normal.

You will also find that you seem to expected someone to hand you the whole wood restoration guide book on a silver plate. You also seem to be upset because someone's honest opinion failed for you.

I realize that you really did not mean to come off that way. But my point is that if you didn't have access to boards like this, you would really be lost.

You will find a lot of valuable information and some not so valuable. Same as if you read a book or paper. It is up to you to decide what information you think will work for you.

When we started there was no information that I knew of available at all. The smallest thing you pick up here, and probably take for granted. Might have taken someone 5 years to figure out.

My point is 99.9999 percent of the people that come to these boards are here to learn and help. If they give you information, it is coming from the heart and has been successful for them. For instance, I have used Wolman and Cupinol and never had a problem with either of them. So that tells me that possibly your cleaning and or staining ability is some what off. Not the information.

If you’re interested in wood restoration you should get the proper training and view the boards for helpful information.

Stop expecting something for nothing, and appreciate the help from others, even if it is the smallest thing. Appreciate that there are boards and chat rooms available, and stop expecting the information to be specifically laid out just for you.

If you read the middle part of your message. You will find that you expect specific information categorized in a special way so you can access it timely, because you don't have time to search.

Well that information is provided for free to you, it is up to you to decide what and how to use it. That same information that you want handed to you on a silver plate, without having to do a search or look through lists of posts, took someone years to learn. And I can assure you they wish that was the only problem they had at the time, looking through posts (Rough).

I think you get the point. Work hard, get involved and it will come to you.

Join the PWNA, go to meetings, get training, learn from your mistakes, learn how to educate your customer on what to expect and you won't get call backs. You will get maintenance calls. I encourage you to join the live voice chats on Mondays and Wednesdays at 7 pm central. It is a lot easier to talk than write, for most.

I also hope that you take what I say, and learn from it, not get offended.

Welcome to the Board


------------------
Dan Flynn
Flynn Service Pro www.powerwash.net
708/715-4206

I will agree with Jim in that I see people all the time that run down to Sam's and buy them a pressure washer and get a 5 gallon bucket and some bleach and they call themselves deck experts. I can't say that about the people on the board since I do not know them, but I can say it from the people that I put out of business on a regular basis because there lack of knowledge leads to an onslought of bad word of mouth advertising by the custoimers they sscrew over to the point that they shut down. I know that may sound arrogant but I've been on too many decks that some other "pressure washer" tried to "blast" clean and then slop some stain on it only to create more trouble than the homeowner had when they started. People have to learn that it's not always as easy as it looks. It's the true professionals that stand behind there work! Like any thing else worth while, its a constant on-going learning process. You have to continiously stay on top of the "improvements" made to products as to how they may affect its performance as well as what exposure you have, type of wood, age of wood, prior treatments, etc...
Its a profession that takes a great deal of knowledge that can't be mastered overnight!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just my thoughts...
Paul

Stephen,

I think the most valuable experience you could invest in would be to attend the next PWNA Seminar. It is going to be in Cleveland, Ohio on September 28 thru October 1st (I think) Check www.pwna.org

They offer seminars on deck cleaning, a deck maintenance certification program, a chance to meet vendors, and a chance to have one on one candid conversations with other contractors from all over North America.

I have had nothing but postive experiences there, I have been to two of them.

I realize that a seminar in September does nothing to solve your problems right now......If I can be of any help, email me.

mike@evclear.com