Cedar home job

Power Clean

New Member
Well, dumb question here. I've posted this question on another board looking to get many different opinions, so please don't be offended if you see it elsewhere.
I'm just looking for advice.

I've posted questions on cedar siding home cleaning recently and heres another.

Dumb question here. I'm going to look at an all cedar siding home tomorrow and I'm sure I'm going to be asked the approximate cost. I am told it is half cedar shake and half plank, lots of mildew, and very dirty. Needs to be cleaned of course and sealed. It's 1875 sq ft all one story except master bedroom. Heres the dumb question. Without even looking at the home, if I give a rough estimate of say $3750.00 ($2.00 sq ft) +/-a couple hundred dollars, would that be acceptable until I can determine the final numbers? Of course they have the usual bushes, etc. I understand that there are other important variables to consider, and that this is more labor intense than doing decks, but if the access is not bad, would this be close? I plan to figure sealer application at one gallon per 100 sq ft for first application and 150 sq ft for second if they desire to have two coats. Not sure what costs in cleaning chems.

Thanks for the help.

Roy
PS: JR, thanks for your previous insight and help.


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Power Clean of America, LLC
powercleanofamerica.com
 

Mike Hughes

New Member
Roy,

Don't fall into the trap of announcing a "rough estimate". This can only lead to trouble. If and when a customer asks you for a rough idea, tell them you will take the measurements, and get back to them as soon as possible. Explain to them that there are too many variables in this line of work for you to guess. If they don't understand that, and give you problems, then it is probably the first of MANY problems this person will give you.......walk away. That's my opinion.

What if you get home and decide you can't do the job for any less then $4900??? How would you justify that? You wouldn't have to justify it if you had kept quiet in the first place.

If I am confident in the job I am estimating, lets say a deck of an average size, I won't mind suggesting a rough price........but something like this, especially given your limited experience in that line of work, you need to think long and hard before you give your price.

I hope this helped in some way....

P.S. Sorry, I cannot offer you any direct advice regarding cedar sided homes..........I have not come upon one that I really care to get into........of the few I have been offered, they were extreme, to say the least. Probably an average job for some (Mr. Cross)......but, I know my limitations.

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Mike Hughes
Everclear
Souderton, PA
 

Power Clean

New Member
Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I too have always thought that it would be best to wait and get a good estimate, but of course that is from the contractors point of view. But they may be just like me. I have a tendency to pressure an estimator when they are estimating for me. However when the person gets a job from me, I do let them do their job. You are right though, people can and do get nit picky about your work.

Hopefully someone will help out and give me an approximate sq ft price.

Anyway thanks for the advice Mike, IT IS GOOD!! Just like most posts on this board. I shall follow your advice.

Roy

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Power Clean of America, LLC
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Clean County

New Member
Roy,
On the house that you describe I would charge about $350-$400 to clean it and an additional $2000 to seal it. Of course I would have to see it to give you a better price but the way you describe it considering that it is mostly one story then this house would be a breeze because of low to no ladder height needed. Because of this it would take me one day to clean and aprox. 3 days to seal it if I was doing it myself. I would use around $350 in materials so with that in mind if I charged $2400 - materials my clear would be $500+ a day with each day being no more than 8hrs long thats $60+/hour which I can and do live with. Now of course if you add workers to that then your hourly rate goes straight up.
As you can see I figure my estimate prices in how long it would take me to do it because if I did it by the sq' every house is different so in my mind that would mean that every sq' price for each house should be different and that would make no sense. Of course if the person demands on having a sq' charge then on the above I would just take 2400/1875=$1.28sq'.
I hope this helps. -John-

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Mike Hughes

New Member
I'm no expert on cedar homes, but at $300 to $400 to clean that house, I think you'd lose your shirt.......especially with heavy mold. If the house were vinyl sided, you'd probably get at least $200 for it..........moldy cedar is a completely different ballgame......much more time consuming (time = money)

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Mike Hughes
Everclear
Souderton, PA
 

Jim Bilyeu

New Member
Hello Roy,

You stated in your post that this home is 1875 Sq. feet. Is this the sq. footage for the house or is it the the sq. footage that has to be restored? Is this cedar rough side out or smooth side out? What kind of job do you want to do on this home, a standard job or a top notch job? These questions will help in determining the cost factor on this job. If the cedar is in bad shape, you are going to get what we call felting or furing of the wood. Do you plan on buffing this off? Are you going to do the eves, soffits and decks?

Restoring a cedar home is a lot differant than doing a deck. There are a lot of factors to look at. Many of them are to just cover your butt. My average cedar home of 2000 sq. feet living area runs about $6000.00 to restore. Belive it or not, people will pay this price for a top notch job. If you have any questions, just let me know.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

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JR Wood

New Member
I'm with Mike,$4900 sounds good.Whenever I bid on cedar shakes, I bid high(as the market will allow in my area)Because they are a pain in the butt,and I really don't want to do it anyway!The only problem is that everybody else does the same thing,sometimes I end up getting it.

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Clean County

New Member
I guess I have to clarify my response a little better concerning cedar shake homes. First off where I live these houses are very common. I'd say at least 20% of the houses here are cedar sided, 60% being vinyl and the last 20% are either brick,stucco,aluminum etc. Now looking back at the original question posted by Power Clean Of America I didn't take into consideration the master bedroom which I guess is 2 stories high. That would add another $100 to my price to clean it. So in one day that house would be cleaned for aprox $500. Now where I live because these houses are so common you won't get much more than that to clean it. When I do estimates for a house like that there are other companies that say they can clean it for up to half that price around here. They are the so called low ballers that was discussed previously. But to get people on average to pay you much more than $500 a day to clean there house well that can be tough.
Of course some houses I did last year I charged more than that and still did the job in one day(aprox 8 hours). A house that sticks out was a stucco house I cleaned for $800 and that was done in one day. These jobs were done by myself. When my worker is helping me of course the houses are done much faster.
And now for the sealing part because it is a sealer that I use with a tint of cedar color to it, it is very easy to apply. You can spray it on and back brush it with relative ease. I may be able to do the above house in less then three days and considering I over looked the master bedroom I would add another $300 to it so in 3-4 days of work I will clear aprox $2500 which for just sealing a house is not cheap around here. Now if they want a semi transparent stain to a solid stain that adds alot to the price because the labor intensifies. The price for a solid stain would add a few more thousand to the price. But just to clear seal it you would never get $6000 around here for a house under 2000sq' and then the house turns after 3yrs or whatever length the sealer last. Believe me if I could I would love to get that kind of money for 3-4days worth of work in the average residential areas here but most people won't pay you $1500 a day clear to seal a house of that size. -John-

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Jim Bilyeu

New Member
In regards to John's post about not getting $6000.00 to restore a 2000 sq. foot cedar home. My key word here is "restore". If all your going to do is presure wash this house and throw some type of finish on, then you should charge less. But, if you are going to strip this house down to the bare wood, now you have other factors that come into play. Are you going to protect the plants and grass around the house? How much is this going to cost in time and materials? Is the stripper going to remove or damage any painted or stained trim that might be on the house? How much will this cost to redo or restain? Are you going to mask the windows to keep off the overspray? How much will this cost. If you don't mask off the windows and you get overspray on the glass, do you plan on cleaning the windows, if so, how much will this cost in time and materials. If you strip this house down to bare wood, what steps are you going to do to help prevent mold and mildew from coming back? Are you going to give it a borate treatment? You only have one chance at this and that is when the wood is bare.

As I said before, there's a lot more to restoring a cedar home and log home than what most people think. I use the same factors in biding my jobs no matter where I have to go, NY, TX, NC, SC,OR,Wash, Japan, Germany, it makes no differance. Other than travel expence there is no differance. It really seems strange to me when someone says that their area won't support these prices. I go into these same areas to work, get my price along with my travel costs.

Please don't take this in the wrong manner. My field is log home and cedar home restoration only. I no longer bid decks. The only decks I do now are attached to the homes that we do. I do no other type of presure washing.

I will also add that I have never and I will never, apply a clear finish to the exterior of any home.

Bottom line here is that you may be able to make the house look clean by just presure washing but it will not kill the mildew spores that are in the wood. If this house is as bad as you said, unless you do something to kill the spores, the mildew will come back.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare




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Power Clean

New Member
Gentlemen,

You probably DO realize how important your feedback is on this project. The varied perspectives, only gives me more insight in doing the job.

I estimated the job at $4950.00 for the house and a 10x14 deck job with two steps. We'll see what happens.

Jim, would you email your procedures, the chems and sealers, etc. that you use? It sounds like you know what you are doing with cedar and I feel that if one can perfect their work as you, that they could get $6000.00 for this size house. But.... how long will it last?

Thanks, Roy

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Power Clean of America, LLC
powercleanofamerica.com
 

Jim Bilyeu

New Member
Hi Roy, In regadrs to your question on "how long will it last"? In doing my bids, one of the first questions I'm asked is "how long will it last"? The answer to this questions depends on severasl factors. #1. What you mean by "lasting". #2. The condition of wood your going to treat, new wood, old wood, how dry it is, etc. #3. type of surface to be treated, smooth, rough, milled or hand peeled. #4. Very important, how the surface was prepared for finishing. #5. The environmental exposure the surface will receive.

What all this means is that it is somewhat difficult to specifically predick how long a finish will "last", given that all these factors interplay to determine the end result.

It is important to understand what "last" means and how your information source is defining "last". We have found that most people refinish or do a re-coat on their homes based on "cosmetic" appearance. That is, when the house gets to looking so bad they don't like to look at it or when they begin to get embarrassed by how it looks. Of course, everone doesn't wait that long, but generally when people call us in to restore their homes, that is the condition of them.

The problem is that most finishes look good longer than they protect the wood. If you apply maintenance coats based on how the homes look-- they have probably been unprotected for a good period of time, often years. We have found cases where people have used a certain brand of finish that we know from experience would not last a year but yet the people swear that it lasted 6/8 years. The main conclusion which can be drawn this large discrepancy is that the parties involved are using a differant definition of what "last" means.

Our definition of last is: Are the wood fibers deteriorating, or separating from each other? If the wood fibers on the surface of the wood are bound together- representing structural integrity of the surface-- the wood is considered protected. A wood finish can be considered to have "lasted" if it is still maintaining the structural integrity of the wood surface.

You can test this by rubbing the heel of your hand, or scratching with a finger nail,perpendicularly across the grain of the wood. If the wood fibers come off, the wood is not protected.

By going with our definition of "lasting", we tell our clients that they should get 3 to 6 years from LOK-WOOD before having to recoat. This of course also depends on the home owner doing his part as far as maintenance goes.

Hope this has helped you. If you have questions, please let me know. I will get back to you about our procedure in restoring cedar homes and log homes. Right now I'm really busy getting ready for the log home show in Houston TX.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

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Mike Hughes

New Member
<FONT COLOR="Maroon">Great post, Jim.</FONT c>
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Mike Hughes
Everclear
Souderton, PA
 

Power Clean

New Member
jim,

I agree with mike... great post! you have really enlighten us on this topic..

thanks a million with your input.

roy

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Power Clean of America, LLC
powercleanofamerica.com
 

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