Concrete splatters on brick

john orr

New Member
I have seen other posts where this has been discussed, but I wanted to ask specific questions to see if any of you have direct knowlege of what to do. (I have a call in to the folks at Prosco.)

The concrete (4000 psi) was poured a few months ago and was splattered on the new-construction brick to a height of about 4ft. There are many hundreds (7 buildings) of linear feet involved. Today I tested with 1200 psi to 4000 psi @ 200 deg 40/25/15 deg tips as well as a turbo nozzle...no affect.

Anyone?
 

Chuck Richard

New Member
Only one thing to say Prosoco 600 Detergent. Follow directions on container. You might have to vary some from their suggested mixture. oh ya one more thing rotomax!
 

john orr

New Member
Dan, I haven't tried any chems yet...don't want to mess anything up.

Chuck, what's the difference between a Rotomax and a regular turbo nozzle?
 

Chuck Richard

New Member
Rotomax has tight pattern, perfect for masonry. Most turbo nozzles have a wider pattern for cleaning flat work and the like. Check around your nozzel may have the same tight pattern.

The only way your be able to do this job right is with chemicals. The Sure Klean 600 detergent has directions on them. Just do what they say and youll be fine. Youll never learn if you dont try. If u need more info go to www.prosoco.com
 
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Bill B

New Member
John, you will be frustrated if you take this job! I clean brick everyday, and a couple times a week I run into this problem. D600 is too weak - don't waste the money or time. Your only chance (after a couple of days) is to use straight muratic, rinse, and go to town with your PW. You will likely find that you will get very little removal at 4000 psi using a 15 or 25 degree tip. Sometimes I do after it sideways with a 0 or 5 degree tip.

Because we do so much of this we apply the acid with a brush or shurflo pump (so there is no dilution) and sometimes use a wire brush with a SS scraper blade.

Of course before doing any of this you'll want to remove any bid chunks with a scraper or small sledge hammer. And your ability to use elevated pressure depends on the brick - don't cause a bigger problem.

I usually run into this around drives and porches (i.e. 10 - 30 feet). I can't imagine going after a large area like yours.

You might offer to do the front end scraping, chem application and 'superficial' PWing. In all cases I would do on a T&M basis and have the client check your work early in the process.
 

Chuck Richard

New Member
i'm gonna have to disagree bill. Using straigh muratic acid is bad enough, but to tell someone with no acid experiance to do this is just plain dumb. What you gonna tell him when he wants to know why the bricks are discolored cause he did what you said. Yes the sure clean is weaker but its safer thats why brick manufactures insist on its use. Just increase dwell time and use the rotomax instead of a 15 or 25 degree tip. I'm not saying your way dosn't work its just not apprpriat for a begginer, or ever as far as i'm concerned.

Just my opionion. Like I'v said before what one man is comfortable with another is not. Just trying to tell him the best method for his experiance.
 

Bill B

New Member
Chuck, good point on the experience factor - I'd pass then, because you will probably need to try several things before finding one that 'partially' works. I spend a lot of time going in behind folks that don't have much exp.

However, I stand by my statement that D600 won't touch concrete, much less stuff that has sat for several months. Also Chuck, you may want to try the 5 degree tip idea. I found it worked very well compared to a rotating tip, which I honestly thought would be the 'end all' to these situations.
 

Chuck Richard

New Member
thanks for the 5 degree tip idea. I will defanantly give it a try. Always looking to learn. Theres just some things i'm set on and will never change my mind about. If Sure Kleen won't work i won't do it. Just don't like using self mix muratic acid.
 

Paul B.

New Member
Muriatic acid is only a bit stronger then 600 Detergent.
Muriatic is about 30-31% Hydrogen Chloride where 600 is between 25-30%. 600 has surfactants that help with hang time but not enough to impact concrete on a vertical surface. Again, I don't believe Hydrochloric acid will remove the amounts of dried concrete as described, without brick damage.

After concrete has SET on vertical surface, about the only way to remove it is scraping or high pressure. If it's a sand faced / glazed brick I wouldn't go near it (too easy to damage). If it's red brick, you may avoid damage if you're careful.
Either way, like Bill said the only way I would tackle it is testing first; buy off from client; by the hour.
 

Bill B

New Member
Paul B, how did you determine the concentration of HCl in the D600? I have wanted to run a titration on it, but haven't found the time to borrow a pH meter, etc. I am using 37% muratic, then reduce the concentration appropriate for task at hand - I add my own surfactants. In some cases I try to 'reproduce' the D600 - however, I thought it was weaker.
 

Paul B.

New Member
If your using 23 baume (37-38% reagent grade) Muriatic acid, it will be much stronger than the commercial grade (20 baume) that most buy in the store (30.5-32.5%).

You're best to run your own tests on several batches of 600. The test numbers I have MAY be old news. If you think it's weaker than 25% concentration, it wouldn't surprise me (check the "Born On" date). I would be interested to see your results as Prosoco does do not tell you the content in their MSDS other than the 30% Upperbound Concentration statement (depending on strategy, it could be a CYA or marketing ploy). I'm not saying Prosoco is, but I've seen shaving in the industry that results in large costs savings without the consumer impact. Since contents are proprietary, testing is always needed, dilutions are different. So who's to say???

The last batch we used seemed weaker at 1:4 dilution than the 1:6 we normally use. Then again, it seemed weaker than the Vana Trol at 1:6 dilution (which is supposed to have an even lower concentration of HCl).

We also ran into a specific brand type "N" mortar that seemed to set-up like concrete only 3-4 days after start of the masonry effort.

I'm also leary of winter purchases as freezing becomes an issue in transport, even though my local supplier's warehouse/storage facility is heated. We usually buy a batch before winter and they store it for us at their facility. This way I know it's not shipped / handled in freezing conditions.

Mixing your own (for those that are qualified) seems like a perfect and viable solution to controlling your own destiny.
 

Revive

New Member
You guy's seem to know alot more of the tech than I would ever claim to.I've had to remove it a few times.I'd use 101 by Diedrich Technologies. The products we have up here in Canada are usualy a little different (availability) but this one comes out of Wisconsin
 

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