placing bids?

jhdcs

New Member
Well here is the deal. I had a potential client he had 17 filters, one huge hood, and wanted the complete duct cleaned which had 7 access panels. He also wanted the back walls cleaned as well as the outside of the hood cleaned. It clearly looked like a 800 job. But I bid him 650 thinking that it was low enough at least get in and get the job. Anyway, he said that his other companies charged him 375. Of course he is having problems with them and they do not do a good job. But what I would like to know is, was my bid to high? It seems for all that work and extra work that he wanted 375 was a low ball bid. He is getting what he pays for.


Natasha
 

Douglas Hicks

New Member
Of course your bid was too high, but are you willing to comprimise on the quality of your work? I have been in your situation many times, as we all have. I have comprimised and not done the job to my standard. Afterward, and even while doing a lousy job I have been upset, grouchy and mad. Not mad at the customer, but mad at myself because I comprimised on my standards. And when you accept the job as a cheap price, you have just locked yourself into a cheap price as long as you work for that customer. Each time you go into the job, you will be pissed off and will again comprimise yourself. My advice, don't do it. If you do a good job, you will get a good feeling, a feeling of pride. There are those who will pay for quality work. The trick is finding those jobs. Keep your standards up, you will get refferals based upon your quality.

When you do a poor job, you will know even if the customer does not know. If the customer does not care if the job is done properly, fire the bastard!

Yesterday I fired one of those, a yellow bastard. Every time I dealt with them, I comprimised myself and the name of my company. Every time, I was pissed off when I went in and when I left because I knew the job was not to my standard. Yesterday we came to an understanding, all he carred about was cheap. He constantly complained about the price. The checks were always late. No more, he will find my price was too cheap.

Yesterday, McDonalds called. Next week I go in and disconnect, remove the Ansul systems, the extinguishers, the exhaust fans and anything else I can carry off. I will store the stuff, and use it at another of his stores. No question as to price, will I really keep it for his use or sell it to others. When the new store is ready, he will call and I will install the Ansul and extinguishers. At the same time I will oversee the installation of the exhaust systems, gas works, and anything else I will be servicing. All w/o asking about cheap price or workmanship. Now, who do you think I will be giving the better service to, and not have to comprimise my standards? Oddly enough, I do a lot of free stuff for my McDonalds. I get called for things I do not do, which allows me to help other tradesmen who meet my standards and help me.
 

jhdcs

New Member
pricing hoods part 2

Get this, he is willing to pay 375 every month and a half for the job. If I bid 400 per month, would it be worth it. I ate dinner there tonight, I assume the job take about 4-5 hours for the first run. We could knock it out from then on in about 3 hours. What is your take and what you bid on this type of job?
 

Douglas Hicks

New Member
I had the same problem once. A competitor was doing a resturant for $285 each quarter. I bid $440.00 each quarter. I got the job, because we did a much better job. The first time, I was asked how long? I figured we could do the job in 2 to 3 hours x 2 = 4 to 6 hours. They said no way, the other guy took until the AM shift came in a 5:00 AM & usually more time. Well, the first time took 11 hours total for 2 of us. And I did the job each quarter. The next year we did the job every 5 months. Now the job takes 5 hours, total for 2 of us. I save my customer $260.00 a year. We also do another resturant for the customer at the same rate. I cannot do both resturants the same night though. My customer does balk at exhaust cleaning, suppression system, extinguishers and emergency lighting for about $1335 per night, so we do the jobs consecutive nights.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 

jhdcs

New Member
let me ask, on the duct system, there are seven (I call access panels with at least 6 screws that needs to be unscrewed) is that the access panel, or just vent panels? I wasnt able to open the panels because the fan was still on. I will wait to actually see what is going on inside. What would you bid for the job? He is not going for 650 per quarter, but is willing to do it monthly. Doing it monthly will cost me more in time chemical and plastic of course. If I look and see what the damage is, off the top of my head I was thinking of at least around 400. Plus he wants the back wall washed as well as the outer hood. 400 a month with 4 people doing the job....I only pay one person though, I have learning for labor guys working with me, and it is working out very well.
 
D

Dave Ott

Guest
Okay what am I missing here? 650 per quarter is 2,600 a year. You say he is willing to go monthly for 375 which is then 4,500 a year. You would make out better on monthly and the system would be a lot cleaner for every service. Now am I missing something?

Now the access panels are above the hood on the duct system. They can be a cover with screws and then have a fire retardant seal (gasket) or they could have a wing nut on both ends that loosen and turn a j hook or other to open, or they could just be a door with a handle. They should all have gasket material so don't lose the gasket. Now the hood has vents for makeup air these are not what your looking for. You need to be above the hood and yes you may have to go into the ceiling tiles so be carefull.

Now I don't know about others but my service always includes cleaning the outside of the hood and rinsing or washing down the back wall and even under the equipment line if the equipment can not be moved out. It would look silly if everything was cleaned except for the outside and the back stainless. That is the first thing a customer will see when you are done. Let them see the shine and then the rest of the clean system.

So now what am I missing? How big is the hood actually and how many fans? I have a small hood which others think is big. It has 10 access panels on it but it is very small. Someone that installed the hood went access panel happy or had leftovers. So without a picture or size I really can't help to much. One persons big is different than mine, as one persons cleaning is different than mine.

You need to be aking your hourly rate on jobs. You may lose your hourly until you get your prep and cleaning system down to a science. Your guys should never be standing around hugging and kissing they should all be working. Tech on the roof checking fans and getting ready while one guy is scraping out access panels and other while the other will be setting up plastic. The fourth um I don't need that many so have him get me coffee.
 
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Douglas Hicks

New Member
Mr Ott raised some questions that have me confused, so I read your posts again. You have 17 filters. If each filter is 19.5 inches the hood is 28 feet, or more. How many ducts? A duct normally is limited to 12 feet of hood, so is that 3 ducts? Do the ducts converge into a single duct w/a single fan or are there 3 ducts and 3 fans? Where are these access panels? Every 10 or 12 feet of straight run or at each change of direction? If the access panels are at the front of the hood, they are probably return air grilles. if you could not remove the panels because the fan was on, they are access panels. If you could remove them w/the fan on, the are not access panels to the exhaust, because there would be no suction. Why did you not turn the fan/fans off? Have you been on the roof? Did you count fans?

Now the labor, you have guys working for free. You are supposed to be teaching them the job. How can you teach them if you do not know? Are you in Tennasee?

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 

D.T. Walker

New Member
I just joined today

Hey ijust joined today so i am still trying to learn how to use this site. You guys seem to be the only ones online riht now so i'll ask you my questions in hopes that i'll recieve a reply. I wanted to know what you guys would bid to do 25-40 rain gutters for LDS church meeting houses. If you aren't failiar with them, they are fairly large, one story (but at times very tall) buildings. The fact that they want 40 done will reduce the price of each one. What do you guys think?
 
D

Dave Ott

Guest
Wow am I tired I didn't see the 17 filters Douglas. The rest of the questions are still functionable though. So now what am I still missing LOL
 
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D.T. Walker

New Member
I just joined today

Hey ijust joined today so i am still trying to learn how to use this site. You guys seem to be the only ones online riht now so i'll ask you my questions in hopes that i'll recieve a reply. I wanted to know what you guys would bid to do 25-40 rain gutters for LDS church meeting houses. If you aren't failiar with them, they are fairly large, one story (but at times very tall) buildings. The fact that they want 40 done will reduce the price of each one. What do you guys think?
 

Douglas Hicks

New Member
Mr. Walker, I am not failiar with rain gutters. We do have something that may be similar in exhaust cleaning. It is a u-shaped device found on some resturants at the edge of the roof. If is a grease collection device which is to collect the grease before it hits the ground. Some resturant owners will use this device as an indicator to look for some one to throw kitty litter on the roof to soak up the grease. Maybe one the moderators can move this post to the roof section.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 

jhdcs

New Member
Dave Ott said:
Okay what am I missing here? 650 per quarter is 2,600 a year. You say he is willing to go monthly for 375 which is then 4,500 a year. You would make out better on monthly and the system would be a lot cleaner for every service. Now am I missing something?

Now the access panels are above the hood on the duct system. They can be a cover with screws and then have a fire retardant seal (gasket) or they could have a wing nut on both ends that loosen and turn a j hook or other to open, or they could just be a door with a handle. They should all have gasket material so don't lose the gasket. Now the hood has vents for makeup air these are not what your looking for. You need to be above the hood and yes you may have to go into the ceiling tiles so be carefull.

So now what am I missing? How big is the hood actually and how many fans? I have a small hood which others think is big. It has 10 access panels on it but it is very small. Someone that installed the hood went access panel happy or had leftovers. So without a picture or size I really can't help to much. One persons big is different than mine, as one persons cleaning is different than mine.


To answer someone else's question to this post, Yes I did go on the roof. It is one long hood. there are 17 filters. The filters and the behind the filters are cleaned every night by the owner and/or his staff. (not that, that means much) but they look brand spanking new. There is one huge fan and the duct that is connected to the fan. (mind you I am new at this and new to the terminology that goes along with it. I assumed from what I was taught that I would see various hoods, i am seeing various types of fans) I stand corrected. The duct that is connected to the fan does not have access panels. The best way to explain it is, along the shaft of the duct, there are panels that has at least 6 screws on them so that we can remove them and clean the inside of the duct system all the way to the fan. From a previous post I was told when you dont have access to the fan, I need to cut out access to clean the fan blads and what not. The job is not complicated, but a lot of work is insue. Not a problem, but I am still learning the bidding war. To me of course he is better with the 650 per month for a 5-6 hour job. Why he would rather pay monthly I dunno. He just wants it done correctly. I just dont want to under bid myself. I am going to talk to him over the weekend.
 

Douglas Hicks

New Member
Since you know how to take pictures and post them, how about posting some pictures of the actual job. We will want to see the hood, appliances, duct, if possible the duct/hood junction, the duct termination on the roof and the fan. I based my answer to the access panel on what you showed in the photo. As you are learning, there are several options in the placement of hood, ducts and fans.

How long have you been cleaning exhaust systems, and who is your trainer. The term "trainer" brings forth visions of a trained animal. Please do not use terms such as that on the boards. Sometimes women will read the postings. We do not need to give them any more encouragement in thier efforts to try to "train" us men to behave properly. I ahve been trying to train my woman to let me live my life as a slob.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon,Inc
 

jhdcs

New Member
Douglas Hicks said:
Since you know how to take pictures and post them, how about posting some pictures of the actual job. We will want to see the hood, appliances, duct, if possible the duct/hood junction, the duct termination on the roof and the fan. I based my answer to the access panel on what you showed in the photo. As you are learning, there are several options in the placement of hood, ducts and fans.

How long have you been cleaning exhaust systems, and who is your trainer. The term "trainer" brings forth visions of a trained animal. Please do not use terms such as that on the boards. Sometimes women will read the postings. We do not need to give them any more encouragement in thier efforts to try to "train" us men to behave properly. I ahve been trying to train my woman to let me live my life as a slob.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon,Inc

You are funny! I will get the pictures. Thanks for all your input.
 

reliable1

New Member
I don't think you bid to high, unless you needed work then come down a little. But 7 access panels in the duct alone sounds labor intensive all by itself. Jeff
 

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