residential driveways

[ghouchu]

howdy folks

i'm about to give a quote on a 6000+ sq ft composite driveway--by composite i mean the type with pea gravel stuck to the surface. i need advice on what sort of chemical(s) will effectively loosen the grunge so that i can keep the pressure down without being forced to go at a snail's pace. on regular cement drives, i just take my turbo and blast away, using chemicals only on particularly stubborn spots. can't do that on composite. the only time i've cleaned a composite is when i first started and clorox was the only thing i knew to use for any application(that was obviously before i discovered this board). the clorox was better than nothing, but it was mighty slow going with the pressure backed off to avoid blasting away the pebbles.

in the absence of any suggestions, i guess i'll go with my house wash--clorox(the type with sodium hydroxide), liquid tide, and some dawn to help with the dwell time on slopes. i suspect i should apply it with an xjet to avoid diluting too much with my downstreamer. seems like i've seen hd-80 recommended for driveways but i can't find a thread on that. suggestions? thoughts? comments? thanks.

next question is how to bid it. i've never done a driveway larger than 2000 sq ft. on that size and smaller, i usually have a good idea about how long it will take and i bid on that basis. recently, after seeing the delco pricing survey results, i've measured driveways and found that my estimates based on expected hours comes pretty dang close to 10 to 12 cents/sq ft. delco says something like 6 to 15 cents/sq ft, 8 or so being average and 10 for jobs that aren't subject to competition. it then says to double or triple those rates for a one time cleaning. i'm thinking that 15 cents/sq ft is fair for composite, then knock 20% off due to volume, which gets us back to 12%. grand total: $800. does that sound fair to ya'll? do you think it will be competitive if she takes other bids? biggest problem may be that she's never had it cleaned before, and may suffer from some sticker shock. frankly, the notion of paying $800 to get a driveway cleaned--no matter how big--strikes me personally as hard to swallow. so, whatever thoughts ya'll have will be greatly appreciated.

thanks

richard






















800

 

[Kevin7022]

Sounds like it's chattahoochee. If thats the case your may need to strip the old coating and re-apply. They have water based but for a drive you need to go with epoxy.
http://www.reliance-supply.com/index.html

This is just one company that supplies coatings. You can probably find the cleaners and coatings locally.

and for pricing any job don't beat your self up with pricing guides.(let the customers beat it up, they will anyway)

Time and material, will always work....

 

[ghouchu]

kevin

i've been blessed with so much ignorance i welcome opportunities--such as this-- to show it off.

what is chattahoochee(sp?)?

are composite driveways(generally, always) sealed with some chemical after they've been pebbled?

if so, what is the nature of the sealant? is it just something to fix the pea gravel in place or does it do other stuff (e.g. waterproof) as well?

how can i tell if the driveway has been sealed?

is it necessary to strip this chemical before i clean the driveway?

will stripping the chemical cause the pea gravel to come loose?

after i clean is it necessary to re-seal, or is it a matter of personal preference, like sealing a deck?

if i reseal, do i spread loose gravel around to bare spots?

does it make a difference to any of your answers that the gravel is already badly worn off in places?

do any of these questions even make sense in the context of your posting, or am i outside the left field fence?

i'm not as hopeless as i may seem; i'm just ignorant, not stupid, despite all appearances to the contrary(and regardless of what everybody says).

thanks

richard

 

[ron]

ron p

they take asphault and put it down like a reg drive way, then take the gravel and put it on top while its still hot and soft. Then the run over it with the roller and it gets imbedded into the asphault so dont use a degreaser it eats tar.
you and that TIDE get rid of that stuff and go with the R109 like we talked about
tide is not strong and is 25% fillers and 25% brightners that neither do any good for anything but fabric.
call K&E CHEMICAL and get some klenzstone spray it on with a pump-up and stiff brush it[broom], rinse with a water broom. no pressure you can do it with a garden hose.
DAWN is for verticals not flatwork,bleach has no cleaning power, and tide is too weak.
hd-80 is wicked stuff and is on sale right now
beth and rod sell it.
how did you do with the storage place?
richard remember its in the chems not in the pressure

 

[AquaMan]

I believe you are describing an Exposed Aggragate driveway.
Which in my area is Concrete with Pea gravel on it.

I clean these all the time. I have a 30'' Steel Eagle though, and can do it fast. I pre-spray a R-109 & bleach mixture. I adjust the surface cleaner up so the Pea Gravel is not knocked loose. It is just like cleaning concrete, except you use lower pressure.

If there has been a sealer applied, don't worry because that is not what is holding the Pea Gravel on. The sealer is a water proofer & gives the driveway a wet look. It wears off just like on a deck.
After you wash the Driveway it will be clean but dry looking. Almost all the sealer will be gone. Re-sealing is easy if the customer wants it. An unsealed aggragate driveway deteriorates fast with freeze & thaw cycles. So you might be able
to sell a seal job too. See ya! Bill

 

[outlaw]

Around her they do alot of pool decks like this and the post constuction crews use muratic acid and a stiff deck brush to clean them, I've never heard of them sealing them but then again we don't get many freezes round here, I only know this cause I sold pools for a few months a number of years ago.
Gav

 

[ghouchu]

bill, you're right, it is exposed aggregate. my daddy always called it composite but, per ron, that's obviously something else. i have a surface scrubber but i'm not practiced enough with it to be comfortable on anything but concrete, yet. do you crank down the pressure or does yours have adjustable wheels you can use to raise it?

bill, since you've done a lot of these and are comparably situated, do you mind telling me what you would charge for 66oo sq ft? some filthy places, some clean, but overall about average dirty--access and drainage no problem.

where do i find r-109?

about the sealant. what type/brand do you recommend and where can i find it? how often does it need to be applied to be effective? the only type i've used on a driveway is v-seal(i think that's what it's called--the kind that reacts with the lime in concrete to create a density that water molecules can't penetrate) i assume you're talking about somrthing else, something that coats the pea gravel instead of just reacting with lime.

ron, i think you're confusing me with richard r, though i've noticed some exchanges between you on the subject of tide in the house wash. this is the first time i've seen a reference to r-109; is that the truck soap i think i've seen you advocate? also, what is klenzstone and where do i get it? do you recommend it for exposed aggregate, or is it intended for asphalt-based composite driveways? by the by, bleach knocks out the mildew present on most of the driveways in this area and the dawn is just to increase dwell time on the slopes of the driveway. i use tide instead of truck soap only because i don/t know where to find truck soap--i'm all for a better cleaner than tide.

gav, do you know how much the muratic acid is cut when used to clean exposed aggregate pavement? do you know if the acid eats away concrete the way it eats away morter? is there any risk that the acid would loosen the bond between the aggregate and the concrete?

thank ya'll very much for your responses. i hope you don't mind educating me a little further.

richard

 

[outlaw]

Ghouchu
I'm not really sure what the ratio is, but it is written on the jug, I'd
be suprised if most the guys I watched cleaning the pool decks could even read English(no offense to anyone intended, just a fact), I personly would start off with the smallest reccomended ratio and work up, I'll bet if you call a good pool supply store that they could probably give you some good info. I certainly never seen any harm done, like i said they just poured the mixture on and started scrubbing and then rinsed off with a water hose.
Gav

 

[Kevin7022]

klenztone

I would not use muratic here.. you can easily burn the stone and concrete if used to strong.

sealers for chattahoochee or exposed agregate or what ever they call it where ya live can be found at http://www.ices.net/html/commerci.htm

call someone who installs this stuff and they can tell ya more and what they use when they put this stuff down.

 

[ron]

ron p

check out www.woodstrip.com
sorry for the person confussion there are lots of people here that i support and if you want any info on chems I use just e mail me rottie72@aol.com
the klenztone is a restoration chem for stone,cement,block,ect...
there are other cheaper things i can tell you about. They dont like it when you list some co. names here and i understand.

 

[AquaMan]

Richard,

My surface cleaner has a height adjustment lever.
E-mail me the demensions of this driveway & how much you can clean an hour.
I will tell you about R-109 and sealer's too.
You will be fine using the Bleach and Tide on this job. No special chems. needed. E-mail me aquaman@charter.net See ya!

 

[Doug Rucker]

Those are always 'fun' to do