Do we really need a Organization ? (poll)

Do You really need an organization to help your business.

  • YES

    Votes: 37 42.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 33 37.5%
  • I can make just as much $ without it

    Votes: 17 19.3%
  • I can't make any money without it

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    88

Clean County

New Member
I don't know why one person would vote that they CAN"T make it without an organization. I would be interested to know why they feel that way also.

I believe and support organizations that hold my interest which means I do promote them unless of course I was told not to by the sites that I frequent.

Speaking of promoting the PWNA is having its inaugural Chapter meetings August 3rd. The main reason for this without getting into the itinerary is...to get more organized :cool:
 

Dan S

New Member
John that one vote was probably done by somebody that is no-longer in this trade!

This is one of those threads that lays dormant for awhile untill somebody gets the bug.

It has been a great thread .....same as the PWNA thread.

However, The PWNA thread is a sticky thread it is a great reminder everyday I log on how I lost the "mod". And the funny thing about all that is the "dude" who dumped me hardly ever post anymore. It is a funny funny world!! now is'nt it?

I still do not believe you need such an org. to be in business............. at least not in my area.
 

Mark

Moderator / Sponsor
I think associations can be a good thing.

IMHO it depends on the individual, and the association,
many have and continue to do fine with, and without
belonging to an association.

[hello]
 

johnny

New Member
PWNA was originally started by a businessman in Texas looking for a way to increase his power washer sales. PWNA served it's purpose because the founder has left and gone with another group. PWNA doesn't have any power and is made up of mainly newcomers to the business who are being lead around by the nose. It's more like a model airplane club. They offer to certify members for a fee to wash trucks and clean decks and kitchen hoods, by whose authority? In short, PWNA is a joke on its members. Save your money or better yet, invest it in some new hose.
 

Clean County

New Member
Dan S.- your right it is a funny funny world out there. At least you and I know to let things go and to move on like where doing here. I lost my Moderator status awhile back on PWI over a dispute with another(Ron M). I got it back by just asking. Who's to say you can't also here and yes I agree that these are great threads that bring out the passions in some.


When you read my remarks compared to Johnny's down below all you have to do is then read Marks because he nailed it. Its still fun to talk about it :)
 

Dan S

New Member
They are all good re-plys and different opinion's is a good thing ............. If everybody had my frame of mind it would be a sad sad world!!
 

Dan S

New Member
This just goes to show you more people will vote for something of least importance

Compared to the real vote on TUESDAY
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
Wow, I'm surprised the see this thread opened up again also. I voted on this thing quite a while back and it's sad to see that we've only had 86 posts on the subject. Does that mean that most people don't care enough to vote? Kinda like what happened last week in the election isn't it? I don't want to drag the political race into this poll so lets just list the facts.

There have been 81 votes on this thread

86 posts, plus this one.

1,898 views of the topic.

How many members are on this BBS? Surely everyone can take the time to click a button or two right?

Let me recap a previous post of mine.

I personally don't feel that I "need" to have an organization to run my company and make money. But, it isn't hurting me either. Sure, I may be a member of PWNA and I may pay a couple hundred a month for dues.

But, it's one more thing I can list for my clients when I'm bidding a job. I'm also a wolman certified contractor and I don't even use their product anymore.. You better believe I list that qualification though. If PWN, PWI, Deckguide and other boards or distributors came out with certifications I was interested in I'd take them also! I may not think these certifications will teach me much but for the average guy that bought his own sears powerwasher, I'm going to look like the all knowing power washing guru.

If you think being able to list numerous affiliations, certifications and qualifications won't help you when bidding a large job or doing a highly visible job (Like a monument or something) that will get your name out there to people, you may want to think again!

We all have to make ourselves look the best we can in person and on paper. Being affiliated with PWNA and doing the Clean Across America project has gotten my company name out there and people call me all the time asking for suggestions on power washing. I've also had some newspaper writers contact me for information on an article they are writing. They also tell me that what I've done on the CAC project is great and they would like to cover it next year and be around when I do some of my projects..

I may not know everything there is about power washing and I may not be the largest, most money making company on these boards but if the local media are looking for someone with numerous affiliations, certifications and qualifications I'm going to stand out above many of the other small companies in the area. Around here there are only maybe four companies that are about the same size and out of them, I have more experiance with the work that I do and if thats what makes me the local expert, that's fine with me!

Getting exposure from the media for free is always huge boost. Getting attention for projects that we do for free to help people and the community is even better, because I believe in giving back to my community and helping people out when I can.
My community, hard work and dedication got me where I am, if being a part of an organization and helping them out can take me further...
COUNT ME IN! after all, what do I really have to lose? A couple hundred bucks? So what! The jobs I've gotten from being able to list all this stuff on my forms and ads has definetly overcome any money I put out to get them.
 

Dan S

New Member
seems like you post "it's all about me! and what you are doing with your business.

Sounds great Henry

Let me tell you something:

You are not alone in this power washing world There is alot of guys on here that dont belong to any org. and are just as successful as you claim to be.
It all sounds good and for those who like to "gloat" type away.
Many pressure washing contractor's that I know work 7 days a week if not 7, but at least 5. They dont belong to any org. at all and YES they like me have landed many high paying jobs. all with any "label" .

So for you to "blow your wad" and make such a bold statement indicating that in order for anybody to be as good as you that you belong to a org.

This is and sounds Political because you are trying to brain wash some folks. just like Kerry tried.

Im happy for you that you think that you are ONLY successful because you spend a couple hundred bucks a month. YEPPIE .

Im just as good and take that same couple hundred bucks and either put it back into the business or simply pay a bill.

So in short
IF you wanna belong or think you have to belong < Good Fer `ya >

If because we wont/dont/cant ....... Then dont compare you with us Because you really I mean REALLY dont have a clue who you really are talking to on this world wide web.

enjoy your org. some of us tips our hats to `ya!

and we expect the same.:(

Oh and for the record 44 people voted NO

Mmmmmmm that means that us 44 folks are dead beats and not as Good as you ???? ( business wise )??????????????????
 
Last edited:

Mark

Moderator / Sponsor
Dan,

Give Henry a break............... maybe you need to
go shovel some snow, or kill a leetle bitty fox.

Or maybe a big buck.

It's OK if they want to join the PWNA, who knows
maybe I will join this year.

Smile Buddy life is tooo short.

:)
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
Hey Dan,

I never said that anyone could not be successful and do better than anyone else unless they joined an organization. As a matter of fact, I said I didn't "need" to be in order to do so. I'm not some huge company that you seem to think I'm trying to make myself sound like. I wasn't trying to boast about what I do or my company in any way. I was only trying to say what I felt helps me now.
I just joined PWNA about 4 years ago and I was doing just fine without it. (I've been in business for 15 years now)

I also said being able to list these things have helped me get jobs in my area, I'm comparing myself to other companies near me just like potential customers do when comparing estimates.

I understand that everyone has their own opinions about organizations and thats fine, I'm just giving my opinion, like you just did.
I enjoy coming to this board to share ideas and listen to what everyone else does because we all do the same kind of work and I've learned quite a bit from you guys. I hope that some of you may have gotten some ideas from me as well. I actually like the fact that everyone is free to say what they really think on this board unlike some of the others where you have to be careful not to voice an opinion on a product you may not like.

Let me do this a different way...

Take 5 companies that have priced a job, power washing and sealing a deck for example.

All 5 contractors bid the job using the same materials, sealers, process and all of them come out with the exact same price. (I know it won't happen but just pretend)

Without taking into consideration anything else but what's written on their estimates how would you pick the guy to do the job?

Would you just go iny miny mo and pick one....Toss them all up in the air and hire the guy that hits the floor last, or would you look at qualifications, experiance,certifications and that kind of stuff? If you would decide another way, how would you do it?

That's what I was talking about, how I compare with the other companies in my area. I'm not trying to compare myself to guys out in california or all over the country, I don't care about what they do because they won't affect me getting a job in Maryland.


Is there anyone on this board that doesn't have any qualifications or certifications at all, even the free Wolman certification? If there is and they are doing well then I agree, I may be wrong, but until someone steps up and proves it I though, just can't believe it.
I do know that they would never make it in my area with all the companies around here that I have to compete against. Hell, theirs at least 6 of them within 5 miles of me.
 

Dan S

New Member
I know it's okay for him to be a member
I know it's okay for anybody to be a member

But That does not make those who are not members any less or any better.

The whole subject was

"do we really need an org. to help your business"

44 said NO

I guess they were wrong.

No snow yet
Buck season is not in yet
and it is too dark out to shoot a fox:)
 

Dan S

New Member
Is there anyone on this board that doesn't have any qualifications or certifications at all, even the free Wolman certification? If there is and they are doing well then I agree, I may be wrong, but until someone steps up and proves it I though, just can't believe it.
I do know that they would never make it in my area with all the companies around here that I have to compete against. Hell, theirs at least 6 of them within 5 miles of me.
I guess I can only speak for my self, I have no org. no label and no cirtificate. and I do quite well

Would you just go iny miny mo and pick one....Toss them all up in the air and hire the guy that hits the floor last, or would you look at qualifications, experiance,certifications and that kind of stuff? If you would decide another way, how would you do it?

I would not go iny miny mo and im sure my clients wont either.

Example I made this bid for HUD ( housing under development ) I was $1,200.00 Higher on this bid then 3 other companies. I got the job. and it went well also got 3 other bids from it and one of which I start next week. all with-out and thing besides my business name on the bid sheet.


This is all Im trying to get out your way and my way. In your eyes you are doing it right . and in my eyes Im doing it right. We are both RIGHT.not just one of us but BOTH.
 

Clean County

New Member
Hey Dan
You know I love this thread since you and I were a big part of it from the beginning. Of the 44 people that voted against needing an organization..no they are not wrong. Neither are the 25 that voted for needing an organization.

It comes down to "What ever floats your boat". Not to make this political but its like the people who vote Democratic compared to you and I who voted Republican. They feel that they don't need a Republican in Power and we felt differently. They feel they are right and we feel that we are right. My answer is this" I try to expound on what works for me but...Take it for what its worth". If it doesn't work for you at least you got to hear some imput from those who it worked for.

Where just sharing info for all to absorb so they can make there own decisions like you and I do.

As for the PWNA it does work for me and many others like what Henry is stating above. If you feel it can work for you then take the risk(Businesses are all about risk taking anyway). IF not then so be it. Its like a Union in a small way where some love them and others hate them. These decisions are for each to decide...on there own.

Good Luck
John Tornabene
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
Hey Dan,

That's sweet that you can bid that much higher and still get the job like that. It says a lot for your company and it's reputation.

I completly agree with you, were both right. I think the biggest point we both may have missed was what works in our area.
Where you operate their may not be as many companies as we have here or your just so much better than them you rise to the top and your company name is taken as the authority or the best in your area.

Around here one company could not have bid that much higher than the others and still gotten the job. it just doens't happen in the political arena we operate in. Unless of course some one is getting paid off..LOL (this is the dc area remember)

I'm glad you see the point I was trying to make and I see yours also.

Not everyone has to be in an organization to succeed. But in my area of Maryland you pretty much have to have some way of standing out among all the competition we have here.. Is there anyone else from the Maryland, DC area that would like to comment on this?
 

onecallpowerw

New Member
No competitors

Southern Maryland really has no competition, especially noticed the other day in 43 degree weather as I was driving by my competitor (oh and by the way, his two rigs were parked at his shop) to wash a house...... I started thinking, why is he not working today and it dawned on me that maybe just maybe his season is now over.....I hope this is the case since we have 13 jobs lined up for the next two weeks. I know, I did not get the work I have through belonging to organization's.

We do work for the U.S Government, County Governments, Property Management companies etc..... and none of these did we get by being apart of an organization. Is this not the whole point ?

Either you pay to say you belong to a org or you dont say nothing. I will stay with the money in my pocket. Honestly....I can guarantee that those that are part of (since no one else will say it) PWNA, they would have made no less money if they were not a member. Hell....how many of your customers actually check up on it anyway ?

Besides....You have to have a computer with internet connection to even learn about PWNA. Sure they will sell you some literature and you can buy their shirts, you can buy their hats etc... BUT, ARE THEY PUTTING MONEY IN YOUR POCKET ? And I can answer that.....NO
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
Nope, the PWNA doesn't put any money in my pocket at all. That's completly up to me and my skills at selling a job and my company.
They do help me sell the job though against some of my competition. I know this for a fact because I ask people what made them decide to choose our services when they tell me they got a bid 30% lower than mine.

Our power washing season is slowing down here but my gutter cleaning season is in full swing. We have one crew power washing only a few days a week and the other two crews are struggling to keep up with the gutter cleaning. In a couple more weeks, I'll shut down the power washing and throw everything I have into keeping up with the gutter cleaning season.

The one thing that really ticks me off is that it seems that this area is the only one thats so packed with competition! I do live in a really big county with lots of people in it but it would still be nice to know who I'm competing against on a job sometimes. Around here it seems like everyone is a power washer some days and they all love to run these 99 dollar deck specials..I know they won't be around very long at those prices but they are here now and next year there will be new ones to replace those that went bankrupt or quit.

That's why it's so important to be able to say I'm affiliated/certified and experianced. It's usually the best selling point you can use in this area unless the client knows someone that you did work for before.
Then our reputation does the selling for us..
 

Cody

New Member
<font color=e87400>Henry, I agree with what you are saying. Listing the PWNA as an association you belong to can improve your closing ratio. Dan doesn't get it because he doesn't want to. He loathes the PWNA thus he can't wrap his brain around what you are saying.

Myself, I don't have any love for the PWNA either. I've said this many times before on these forums but I figured I'd say it again here real quick. The problem with the PWNA is that the PWNA doesn't give 2 poops about you. They'd just assume you were a poodle paying your dues & being a body to add to the count. This association will accept ANYONE that pays their dues. Thus ANYONE who pays the dues can advertise their Association, their certifications just the same as you thus closing that gap of time & experiance. In other words if Joes Pressure Washing Service is certified & a member & has only been cleaning for 2 weeks with a 2.2gpm 2000psi debilvis & bids against you on a job his qualifications can look as good as yours less the years experience. If Joe is a good bulls'r then he can overcome the experience issue too. On top of that the PWNA is a perfect resourse for a newbie to learn all he wants in a short amount of time. This will only improve the lasting ability of the newbie companies. This adds more problems than many chose to acknowledge. In my humble opinion the largest problem facing small businesses are the inabilities of start-up companies. Inabilities being primarily issues concering capital, operation expenses against income. The breakdown here comes when these start-ups simply don't have a clue as to how to run a business successfully. 99% of the time they undercharge for their services (no matter how much you try to tell them not to) thinking they are making enough to run successfully. How does the PWNA affect this. Well they make it too easy for anyone to get business, they help learn how to clean misc surfaces, how to market & where to get this that & the other. Never will it concern the PWNA wether or not the person has the business savy to run the business successfully. Nor does it concern the PWNA wether or not the person will have integrity & not screw the customers or do poor quality work. It's like ordering one of those online diplomas, anyone can order a diploma online & be a doctor but would you want them doing a heart transplant on you.

PWNA is about membership, little else. The company managing it is going to make more money by increasing the membership base. Then to make matters worse they will operate how they want with their best interest in mind, not yours. A prime example would be the Feburary Convention when it was hosted with the Window Washer's Association. I'd bet PWNA membership has nearly doubled since that time. If so just think of all the addt'l competitors the PWNA has given you by enlightening the window washers of additional market/s.

An Aluminum Association I belong to requires all it's members be State Licensed. They do a back ground check on you with local Law Enforcement, the BBB, the local licensing board & require a credit report to be a member.

The PWNA requires .... you pay them $XXX.xx

Most people here will call me crazy, maybe I am, I guess we'll see in time. Seems to me an organization which offered a formal face to advertise & some certification training & was trying to keep others OUT of the business not helping them get into it would be a more profitable venture to the "PROFESSIONAL" pressure cleaning contractors!

Cody</font>
 

Clean County

New Member
Henry, I agree with what you are saying. Listing the PWNA as an association you belong to can improve your closing ratio. Dan doesn't get it because he doesn't want to. He loathes the PWNA thus he can't wrap his brain around what you are saying. SO this is why Dan and I can't connect. Cody just made that clear to me with the above quote.

As for the PWNA being just about membership and not much else that can't be further from the truth. I know because I sit in on these board meetings. Cody you should also when given the oppurtunity. I will say that without membership the PWNA would not exist and thats a given. So Obviously membership status is at the very top of the PWNA priority list so it can survive..but....the PWNA is also about helping its members the best way that they can with the minimal amount of Money that it has. So what does that mean??The more members=More$$$= the More benefits to the PWNA members. Its as simple as that.

I have a feeling that Dan S. is thinking about asking me for the umpteenth time what exactly does the PWNA do for me with the $195/yr the membership cost me. Without re-hashing this over and over again I will just say that it works for me because I believe in it. Also this year I got around 4 jobs just from being a member of the PWNA alone thru people searching the web. This made me around $1600 or so net profit that I wouldn't have had otherwise. So that alone is worth me being a member.

I can go on and on about the Positives of being a PWNA member just like Dan S. and Cody can go on and on about why they are not a PWNA member. In the end its going to come down on what you think will work best for you and then you should go from there.
 

Dan S

New Member
I can go on and on about the Positives of being a PWNA member just like Dan S. and Cody can go on and on about why they are not a PWNA member. In the end its going to come down on what you think will work best for you and then you should go from there.


And on that note we will leave it there.

I have a feeling that Dan S. is thinking about asking me for the umpteenth time what exactly does the PWNA do for me with the $195/yr the membership cost me.Not this time my friend....Not this time.......................I have seen how these things can get out of line fast Only because I think my brain is wrapped just fine and you think your brain is wrapped fine and when our itty bitty brains crash together it's like a Scud missle.



That's sweet that you can bid that much higher and still get the job like that. It says a lot for your company and it's reputation.Henry I think it was because i sold the job #1 and #2 they had to spend so much money in order to qualify for more next year. Who knows? But they did tell me that the way I explained everything to them that it was very professional.

My point is pretty simple, I dont need any thing besides my business name on my bid sheets to be one of the top dogs in our area!! simple as that.
 

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