Do we really need a Organization ? (poll)

Do You really need an organization to help your business.

  • YES

    Votes: 37 42.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 33 37.5%
  • I can make just as much $ without it

    Votes: 17 19.3%
  • I can't make any money without it

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    88
I want to clarify that the email I referred to that was forwarded by the PwNa president against our wishes went to the same town as where their attorney supposedly is. So, I erred in saying it went to their attorney, I couldn't know. I just assumed that was who it went to since it went to his town. It could have gone to anybody in that town. Either way, the president broke my trust because he was instructed to forward it to no one.



I sent the entire thing to your PWNA president at the time.

That was just the most recent John.

The worst was the FOIA request from the state of Nevada. It was approximately 430 pages of emails. In those emails Robert pestered the state to make changes that would make Nevada as difficult to work in as some parts of California and Texas. They tried to be nice to Robert and Jim in spite of their rantings. Finally Jim threatened them for not being willing to make the changes they asked for and went over their head to a regional EPA director. Once that was done their internal emails thereafter consist of making fun of Robert and Jim as if they were nutcases.

We informed the PWNA of what they were doing. I don't remember if it was that one or the County one that I sent to the president stating that he could read it, and share verbal confirmation with others but, since we bought and paid for the information we did not give permission for him to share it. According to my software the president read the 430 pages for 7 minutes then forwarded it to their attorney. On the opposite end of the sprectrum I read all 400+ pages along with some of the other UAMCC BOD who also read most of all of them.

This type of rogue activity that effects the livelihood of contractors and could put them out of business is worth more than 7 minutes of reading time and a shift off to the attorney just to check culpability.

That is the difference between a contractor for contractor org and an org in place to benefit a few large contractors and vendors. Our BOD stepped in, put a stop to it, mended fences with the agencies involved by showing professionalism and representing our industry as responsible contractors rather than a bunch of vendors trying pigeonhole contractors into being forced to buy their wares.

Of course the PWRA gets involved with none of this type stuff because helping contractors in ways that do not produce sales isn't part of their business plan. Which is absolutely fine, as long as people are aware there is a difference and know what their money is going for. There is nothing wrong with spending money on an org that exists to make money off of you as long as those terms benefit you accordingly. For the type of org it is, being that the PWRA doesn't get involved in government, I'd join it myself if I felt the return was worth the investment and if I thought my association with them would benefit my company. They are just simply in a different league than the other two orgs and comparing them is apples to oranges.

We warned the PWNA leadership about Robert and Jim. They didn't listen. Their sheer hatred for Ron and myself overshadowed any common sense decisions and they allowed Robert, Jim and you to come on board and represent them. It didn't take long for them to realize what a mistake they had made. That is why Robert is no longer a part of the org (except according to his video he is the president and founder of the PWNA) and Jim couldn't even get nominated. I don't know your story with them because I didn't have any need to look into it. Your involvement has been mostly that of a cheerleader to the most dangerous characters with little to no interaction with government authorities.

One day you will learn the same lesson the PWNA has, that being, all along Robert and Jim have taken actions that directly harm contractors in a quest to make money or feel important.

Meanwhile, the UAMCC has been working hard to help contractors work smarter, more efficiently, and within the current laws to keep pricing at a level that both supports contractor families while allowing our customers to clean more frequently, keeping the environment perpetually clean as we go. The UAMCC model is a compromise on all sides that keeps our industry moving along in spite of downturns in the economy.

I hope you will understand the difference one day and stop trying to play the victim. You are the victim of your own naïveté that was played on by the very people you look up to. They used you, incited your anger, and made you fight their battles for them. None of us at the UAMCC have ever done that to you John. We fight our own battles, do our own homework, and stand as men in our capacity as not only individual contractors, but as elected representatives of the org.
 

Doug Rucker

PWN ADMIN TEAM -
Staff member
Listen noob I'very been here since 2000 & you just joined the other day...stay out of post you don't understand. This is a little over your head & because the way you act & get angry on all these post your hurting this bb. but knowing you like I do your interrupting all post just to get rankings. That doesn't help anyone.....

Yeah his rankings will really shoot over the top with that sig he has...lololol
 

Clean County

New Member
I sent the entire thing to your PWNA president at the time.

That was just the most recent John.

The worst was the FOIA request from the state of Nevada. It was approximately 430 pages of emails. In those emails Robert pestered the state to make changes that would make Nevada as difficult to work in as some parts of California and Texas. They tried to be nice to Robert and Jim in spite of their rantings. Finally Jim threatened them for not being willing to make the changes they asked for and went over their head to a regional EPA director. Once that was done their internal emails thereafter consist of making fun of Robert and Jim as if they were nutcases.

We informed the PWNA of what they were doing. I don't remember if it was that one or the County one that I sent to the president stating that he could read it, and share verbal confirmation with others but, since we bought and paid for the information we did not give permission for him to share it. According to my software the president read the 430 pages for 7 minutes then forwarded it to their attorney. On the opposite end of the sprectrum I read all 400+ pages along with some of the other UAMCC BOD who also read most of all of them.

This type of rogue activity that effects the livelihood of contractors and could put them out of business is worth more than 7 minutes of reading time and a shift off to the attorney just to check culpability.

That is the difference between a contractor for contractor org and an org in place to benefit a few large contractors and vendors. Our BOD stepped in, put a stop to it, mended fences with the agencies involved by showing professionalism and representing our industry as responsible contractors rather than a bunch of vendors trying pigeonhole contractors into being forced to buy their wares.

Of course the PWRA gets involved with none of this type stuff because helping contractors in ways that do not produce sales isn't part of their business plan. Which is absolutely fine, as long as people are aware there is a difference and know what their money is going for. There is nothing wrong with spending money on an org that exists to make money off of you as long as those terms benefit you accordingly. For the type of org it is, being that the PWRA doesn't get involved in government, I'd join it myself if I felt the return was worth the investment and if I thought my association with them would benefit my company. They are just simply in a different league than the other two orgs and comparing them is apples to oranges.

We warned the PWNA leadership about Robert and Jim. They didn't listen. Their sheer hatred for Ron and myself overshadowed any common sense decisions and they allowed Robert, Jim and you to come on board and represent them. It didn't take long for them to realize what a mistake they had made. That is why Robert is no longer a part of the org (except according to his video he is the president and founder of the PWNA) and Jim couldn't even get nominated. I don't know your story with them because I didn't have any need to look into it. Your involvement has been mostly that of a cheerleader to the most dangerous characters with little to no interaction with government authorities.

One day you will learn the same lesson the PWNA has, that being, all along Robert and Jim have taken actions that directly harm contractors in a quest to make money or feel important.

Meanwhile, the UAMCC has been working hard to help contractors work smarter, more efficiently, and within the current laws to keep pricing at a level that both supports contractor families while allowing our customers to clean more frequently, keeping the environment perpetually clean as we go. The UAMCC model is a compromise on all sides that keeps our industry moving along in spite of downturns in the economy.

I hope you will understand the difference one day and stop trying to play the victim. You are the victim of your own naïveté that was played on by the very people you look up to. They used you, incited your anger, and made you fight their battles for them. None of us at the UAMCC have ever done that to you John. We fight our own battles, do our own homework, and stand as men in our capacity as not only individual contractors, but as elected representatives of the org.
OK I read this whole thing Tony. There is a glaring mistake your leaving out but I'll report on that at a later date. I will tell you this your UAMCC BOD Rob Carey (my friend ) got it right then. Also I do have a ton of respect within the PWNA and I did alot of good for them over the years including when I was Treasurer and we had the highest paid membership 475 under my watch. You know darn well I'm not about hurting contractors. There was a reason I became a PBA union President for my fellow LEO's & why I served honotably for the PWNA in the past. I defend the right for contractors.

Email me that manuscript & I will guarantee I'll read the whole thing like I did with the Orange County emails that Scott Stone disrupted. I'll give you my fair and honest opinion like I always do.

As for the UAMCC I can't support them at all until Doug Rucker lifits "Any and all bans" he has put on me because of his personal dislike of me. The way it looks now is just another Robert org Vendor doing as he pleases as the supposed "not for profit" President just to benefit his wallet instead of sticking up for the rights of contractors which they never really do.....& remember you made that clear around 2010-11. I haven't changed...have you?

My email is clncounty@aol.com
 
OK I read this whole thing Tony. There is a glaring mistake your leaving out but I'll report on that at a later date. I will tell you this your UAMCC BOD Rob Carey (my friend ) got it right then. Also I do have a ton of respect within the PWNA and I did alot of good for them over the years including when I was Treasurer and we had the highest paid membership 475 under my watch. You know darn well I'm not about hurting contractors. There was a reason I became a PBA union President for my fellow LEO's & why I served honotably for the PWNA in the past. I defend the right for contractors.

Email me that manuscript & I will guarantee I'll read the whole thing like I did with the Orange County emails that Scott Stone disrupted. I'll give you my fair and honest opinion like I always do.

As for the UAMCC I can't support them at all until Doug Rucker lifits "Any and all bans" he has put on me because of his personal dislike of me. The way it looks now is just another Robert org Vendor doing as he pleases as the supposed "not for profit" President just to benefit his wallet instead of sticking up for the rights of contractors which they never really do.....& remember you made that clear around 2010-11. I haven't changed...have you?

My email is clncounty@aol.com

You have already read them John. All the relevant emails were posted at PWI and the UAMCC. They were sent to the president so that he would know that I did not pick and choose in my postings and just post things that were inflammatory or slanted in any way. If you would like to verify, ask the president to open his email, confirm, and let you know that my postings were accurate. Most of them were scans of the actual emails themselves.

You are showing yourself to be very petty if you withold support for an org with almost 10 board members, around 100 committee members, over 500 donating members, over 50 associate members and over 2000 other members all supporting family and employees most likely equalling more than 10,000 people just because you don't care for the president.
 

Clean County

New Member
You have already read them John. All the relevant emails were posted at PWI and the UAMCC. They were sent to the president so that he would know that I did not pick and choose in my postings and just post things that were inflammatory or slanted in any way. If you would like to verify, ask the president to open his email, confirm, and let you know that my postings were accurate. Most of them were scans of the actual emails themselves.

You are showing yourself to be very petty if you withold support for an org with almost 10 board members, around 100 committee members, over 500 donating members, over 50 associate members and over 2000 other members all supporting family and employees most likely equalling more than 10,000 people just because you don't care for the president.

Hey Tony I'm going to dismissed Scott Stones silliness so it comes down to you and me. I never read or saw your manuscript. I heard it was shizzcanned. In case you forgot Scotty boy banned me 4x on PWI so I can't open anything there. Heck I only visited PWI just a handful of times since my "lifetime " ban there. Ron FB PM'd last week stating he's shutting down PWI because he's retiring & of course Doug has me banned for life from the very bb I admined which is the UAMCC bb.

So I'll ask you again can you send me that manuscript to my email clncounty@aol.com ?
You got nothing to hide so let me see it myself.
 

Clean County

New Member
Of course, three of them were by your request. Begging, actually. Something you seem to be really good at.

Once again irrelevant and biased. Common Scott you can do better. Can you offer anything positive here or are you going to keep crying to get people to justify these bazaar bans? Here I'll make it easy for you..know one cares why you like to ban people and multiple times each just to lift your self esteem. Quit belly aching already & let it go.
 

Tony Evans

Member
John, your hypocrisyhypocrisy knows no bounds. Telling Scott to offer something positive when you are the most negative guy on this board. Appalling!
 
Hey Tony I'm going to dismissed Scott Stones silliness so it comes down to you and me. I never read or saw your manuscript. I heard it was shizzcanned. In case you forgot Scotty boy banned me 4x on PWI so I can't open anything there. Heck I only visited PWI just a handful of times since my "lifetime " ban there. Ron FB PM'd last week stating he's shutting down PWI because he's retiring & of course Doug has me banned for life from the very bb I admined which is the UAMCC bb.

So I'll ask you again can you send me that manuscript to my email clncounty@aol.com ?
You got nothing to hide so let me see it myself.

John, the UAMCC paid a fairly decent sum to obtain the FOIA REQUESTS. I sent them to your PWNA president as a courtesy at no charge so they they could verify our claims. If you can't take my word for it, please contact whoever the president was at that time and ask them any questions you might have. I literally spent over 200 hours going through all of it, putting the important things out there for public viewing, and commenting back and forth on the boards. You can't pretend like you weren't a part of that John! You were right there fighting like always and defending Robert and Jim. Please don't act like this is something that was just "sprung" on you.
 

Clean County

New Member
Yep, you never requested a ban.

Once again pointless and immature on your part Scott. I did ask for that ban so I couldn't see you guys attack my family or Babe Ruth's family which is what happened there and you know that. You were also reveling in your Jealousy of Jim Gamble so you snapped. What got you in trouble there which you won't admit was you put Beth on my ban agreeing with you. The main and respected admin there Grant fixed this thru Beth of that classless thing you did. Anymore garbage you want to air to help your ego?
 

Clean County

New Member
John, the UAMCC paid a fairly decent sum to obtain the FOIA REQUESTS. I sent them to your PWNA president as a courtesy at no charge so they they could verify our claims. If you can't take my word for it, please contact whoever the president was at that time and ask them any questions you might have. I literally spent over 200 hours going through all of it, putting the important things out there for public viewing, and commenting back and forth on the boards. You can't pretend like you weren't a part of that John! You were right there fighting like always and defending Robert and Jim. Please don't act like this is something that was just "sprung" on you.

I never saw this Tony S. I heard about it and no one I knew who thought it was worth reading. I'll read it if your willing to send it. Outside of that there's nothing else I can do but reiterate no one I know read it. Outside of that do you know who else read the whole thing? Send it if you can to clncounty@aol.com
 
I never saw this Tony S. I heard about it and no one I knew who thought it was worth reading. I'll read it if your willing to send it. Outside of that there's nothing else I can do but reiterate no one I know read it. Outside of that do you know who else read the whole thing? Send it if you can to clncounty@aol.com

Next time you come out here you can come over and read the whole thing if the BOD gives permission. It belongs to the UAMCC
 

Clean County

New Member
Next time you come out here you can come over and read the whole thing if the BOD gives permission. It belongs to the UAMCC

Your an executive BOD right? You also have Doug Rucker here can't between the 2 of you present this to the board for my approval? Can't you just put this into file format & send it via email? I really want to see how you came to your conclusions here. UAMCC should support this. Can you also tell me who else read the whole thing so I can ask them about it & what their thoughts are? I am trying here Tony but your not helping much. It's like I'm getting stonewalled for no real apparent reason.
 
Your an executive BOD right? You also have Doug Rucker here can't between the 2 of you present this to the board for my approval? Can't you just put this into file format & send it via email? I really want to see how you came to your conclusions here. UAMCC should support this. Can you also tell me who else read the whole thing so I can ask them about it & what their thoughts are? I am trying here Tony but your not helping much. It's like I'm getting stonewalled for no real apparent reason.

John, you were witness to every bit of the discussion on this starting nearly two years ago. Trying to give the false impression that something has been hidden from you is just another victimization tangent to go off on since the banning complaint is petering out.

Let's just assume everything I've said about the PWNA, Robert and Jim doesn't exist. Let's assume the PWRA is not the in the same realm as not-for-profits. Now, with all that behind us, how could you, a self proclaimed knight in shining armor for the contractors, a former union boss, be against the UAMCC after witnessing all the good that has come out of the org?
 

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