Duct not to code

[Douglas Hicks]

I recently did an exhaust system cleaning job. The system was installed in July of 2000. The hood is a back draft, with a vertical duct for 6 feet, a 90 degree bend horizontally for 10 feet, a 90 degree bend vertically for 4 feet and another 90 degree bend that exits the building to the fan on a flat roof. the last run is about 14 feet. When the sheet metal people were running the duct work, I told them that access panels were required. I gave them the info on DuctMate Brand panels. The first panels they were going to install were the low temp models for HVAC ducts. After several phone calls I got them to order the hi-temp panels. I told the sheet metal people where to install the panels. One of the panels is installed properly, allowing access to the horizontal run to the fan, and the vertical duct down. The other access panel is too small to allow me to use my spinner nozzle and wagon. The panel is also on the bottom of the duct, and leaking. There is no access panel on the vertical duct from the hood, so the only way to clean that duct is from the bottom. We all know that does not allow for cleaning to bare metal. After the panels were installed, I told the sheet metal company and the owner that the panel was not installed properly and would leak grease. the owner said he would take care of the problem. That has not been done. Of course the owner assured me that when the place catches fire, he will not hold me responsable. Yeah, and he'll respect me in the morning too. I also serviced the fire system when I cleaned the exhaust system. My service report has a place for remarks and notes. I listed the notes as follows:
1. No access to clean vertical and horizontal duct in kitchen
2. Access panel mounted on bottom of horizontal duct leaks.
3. Wrong grease filter in hood.
4. Very low air movement in system.

The owner told me he would not pay me if I left the service report as written, with the defeciencies noted. This job was inspected by the local building inspector, which means absolutly nothing. I have yet to see an inspector that knows anything about commercial kitchens.

How about some input on this?

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon

 

[Dave Olson]

Hello Douglas,

Most of the systems that we do are not to Code! We see them in all areas (Federal VA, USAF, State Univ, local hospitals, country clubs, etc.). Yes, I like you have been taught that we should not clean or work on systems that are not to code. There are many that I do not. But if I held to it we would not clean very many systems!!

i don't think that my customers would pay me either if I wrote up a report like you stated. I include on the invoice in kinder and gentler terms the not to code items. We also have a statement on our service tags that we put on the hood (areas of this system can not be cleaned due to lack of access).

Dave Olson

 

[David Saulque]

As I have stated before, the mechanical code does not state that the doors are too be placed on the side. Thus because of the ease of the install they place them on the bottom. I replace the doors on the side and warn the accounts that the system will leak. The seals leak on the first go round.

Doug, how's the snow??

David

 

[Richard]

Dougals
If you were there at the time the system was being installed how come your guys didnt install the doors? I've been in the same situation with the installers and have told them we'd do the doors.
as far as the after service report it isnt what you say but how you say it , like David said tell him it will leak and install new doors in the right place(s) and if the guy is a real bone head and you feel that theres a possible fire hazard i'd question myself as to if i really wanted this guy as a customer, I mean if he's not gonna pay you, theres your out

 

[HarQuin]

Many of our systems, too, are not to code.

If you cannot come up with an agreeable ASR, I would let the customer go.

In NM you need HVAC Lic. to install access panels.

I recently bought/traded access panels from a customer that decided not to have them installed. Their theroy is...If the system has not burnt in 20 yrs why have it properly maintained.

I have often wondered how the insurance carrier would react if they were aware of these situations.

Harlyn

 

[BryanL]

Yep it happens all the time, I've seen it in Airports, new construction, old construction you name it, if they can build it so that it can't be cleaed you can bet the farm they will do it.
I recently (a year ago) got a call from a rest located at the Inner Harbor in Baltimore, not my account. It seems they had a fire and the duct had to be partially removed and replaced. When they cut it open they found parts of the duct where almost clogged shut with grease. The natural reaction was " it's my exhaut cleaners fault" so they called me looking for another cleaner, when I went to look at it, as luck would have it inspectors from the fire dept, health dept, and building maintenence were there, all were completley stunned when I told everyone who would listen that this system as it was and as it was apparantly is being rebuilt is and has always been uncleanable.
I spent 2 hours there explaining what needed to be done to make it cleanable, some of it was unreachable without major reconstruction of parts of the building.
A month later I get call from the new manager of the restaurant , he tells me that he just spent $10,000 on upgrades to his exhaust and wanted me to come and look at it so we wouldn't miss anything when we cleaned it, even though i told him I was the person who suggested the changes, he insisted that I come, so he can show me. I go to look at it and to my amazement they had changed everthing exept what had suggested.
Instead of installing access panels in a duct that runs 30 ft horizontal, through the mens and women restrooms then elbows to go over the bar where it is completley inaccessible due to a solid ceiling before going up to the fan that is mounted in a crawl space above a sub shop upstairs, a space I might add that was crammed with dry goods as it is also storage for the sub shop
they spent all that money on new stainlees steel ceiling tiles and new wing nuts on existing access panels that where mostly useless anyway due to their placement, they did install one panel in the fan that was usefull, and I don't know what else. I only saw a couple thousand dollars worth of work myself. After looking at all of this I had to inform the manager that I would not even attempt to clean it because none of the things that were needed to clean it were done.
needless to say he wasn't very happy and had a few chioce words for me before was able to get out of there. I did get a ll from the maintenence supervisor who asked me to come and look at the other places al of which have similar problems just not to the same degree, and I was able to get a small consulting fee for my time but I still refuse to do work in that building.
Sorry for the length but it sure makes me feel better to talk about it, a note concerning follow up reports that where mentioned earlier, it is a good Idea that reports with areas of concern be followed up on with a phone call to the owner of the building or restaurant, Managers often have other things to worry about or just don't care enough to get things done, spending extra money often cuts into there pocket.