gutter damage - what to do...

[derekcaldwell]

I just got through cleaning someone's gutters and had some problems. I used Simple Green on the gutters and it worked great or so I thought. I even tested it out on a smaller area and it worked fine. On the bottle it says it can be used for aluminum and painted surfaces which is what gutters are. I then did the whole house with Simple Green and my pressure washer which I bascially just rinsed with. Didn't use the pressure cus I was about 1-2 ft away from gutters. I hope that was far enough. Anyways after finsishing I walked around and noticed that there were areas of shiny aluminum showing through. I freaked but realized I had to fix it by spot painting those areas. I took a gutter downspot section to the hardware store to match the paint. Then when I painted those few areas and let the paint dry a few hours later the results were disappointing. Now instead of clean gutters there is clean gutters with paint spots. What do I do for this situation and what do I do or not do to prevent this from happening again?

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Tim Lynch]

It sounds like the paint on the gutter was failing before you washed, were they dusted out ( when you rubbed your hand on the gutter did the paint chalk up on your hand? ), I can't see a problem with simple green it's not a paint stripper. I really feel the paint was blown in the first place and you should not have to re-paint the gutters for no cost.

Rub them again and see if there are areas still showing paint falure and show your customer. Simple green was not the problem it was the gutter paint to begin with.

 

[PressurePros]

I would rectify by painting the entire gutter. Chalk it up to experience. We all have "whoopises" from the beginning jobs. What sets apart a true professional is owning up to the mistake and making it right.

 

[Bleemus]

Simple Green is not the problem of that you can be sure. I use it for a multitude of things and it certainly wouldn't take paint off a gutter. Is it a mistake on your part that the paint was failing already? As long as you used low pressure and chemicals you should not be held liable for it and you may find the owner was aware that the gutters were old and the paint may come off. If on the other hand you got carried away and put the tip of the wand too close you can blast paint off just about anything.

Ascertaining the condition of current paint and pointing it out to the customer BEFORE starting the job is always preferable.

 

[PressurePros]

Is it a mistake on your part that the paint was failing already? As long as you used low pressure and chemicals you should not be held liable for it and you may find the owner was aware that the gutters were old and the paint may come off.

The fact is, regardless of reason, the contractor caused damage. If I were the homeowner, I would have wanted to know possible risks and decide whether I wanted my gutters a little dirty or with showing metal that will rust and corode and need fixing. At the very least, if my contractor was inexperienced I would expect him to fix his problem.

Ascertaining the condition of current paint and pointing it out to the customer BEFORE starting the job is always preferable.

Absolutely. And that is why you pay a company that has ben aorund awhile, has experience and will rectify mistakes. That experience, the insurance, and the ability to rectify mistakes should help you to understand why the $400 wash a company performs has more value than a $69 one. You may think you have things figured out and you seem like an intelligent guy but you will see what we are talking about when you get out there and run your business for a year.

 

[Larry L.]

you can blast paint off just about anything.


If he has that kind of powerwasher he's got muscels like popeye.

 

[Bleemus]

The fact is, regardless of reason, the contractor caused damage. If I were the homeowner, I would have wanted to know possible risks and decide whether I wanted my gutters a little dirty or with showing metal that will rust and corode and need fixing. At the very least, if my contractor was inexperienced I would expect him to fix his problem.





Absolutely. And that is why you pay a company that has ben aorund awhile, has experience and will rectify mistakes. That experience, the insurance, and the ability to rectify mistakes should help you to understand why the $400 wash a company performs has more value than a $69 one. You may think you have things figured out and you seem like an intelligent guy but you will see what we are talking about when you get out there and run your business for a year.

Ahh, seems like you haven't forgotten about my experiment. Just to be clear it was $79. Even the big multi truck companies down in this neck of the woods don't charge anywhere near $400 for any reasonable sized house. The "best" guy in town, according to other contractors, charges about 150-175 for a 2200 sf two story house. Your market may be different. As for my "experience" I have started and sold two successful restaurants, helped start an internet company that now employs 85 people and is profitable. Also have sailed around the world, lived in Tahiti, danced with the Maoris and shoot golf in the 70s regularly. I have lots of experience. Running a pressure washing business is not brain surgery and fufilling the requirements of professionalism, fiscal responsibility, customer service and quality work are things I have been doing my whole life. I am happy that you are learning the importance of all of these components to a successful business as well.

As for the gutter damage would you also feel that he would be responsible if contracted to wash a wooden wall and during the wash a huge hole developed in the wall revealing massive termite damage that was not apparent during initial inspection and estimate? Should the pressure washing contractor now be responsible for replacing any damage created by the preexisting termite infestation? Is it really "his problem"? Just curious.

Cheers.

 

[Bleemus]

Derek,
Back to your original queston. It would seem we don't have enough info to determine exactly what happened here. Aluminum doesn't rust so peeling paint is quite rare. Were these two year old gutters that somehow had a bad primer appplied at the factory and it just peeled off or were these 20 year old gutters where the paint had just faded and worn so much that you just washed off the last dusty remmants of what appeared to be paint? If the former it is likely a warranty issue with the gutter manufacturer, if the latter then a discussion with the owner is in order to determine your course of action.

Whether it was your fault or not the decision to repaint the gutters was admirable but, when painting aluminium, you can quickly make a good deed a real mess. You must scrub the gutters with brush or one of those teflon safe scrubbie pads. Once clean you need to use a proper primer. Don't use any latex primers that contain ammonia. Ammonia will react with any exposed aluminum, even little pinholes that you don't see, and the resulting chemical reaction between the ammonia and aluminum will create a gas bubble when the air pressure drops below the pressure you applied the primer at and actually cause little bubbles to form. Bizarre eh? When the pressure rises again the bubbles will go away. To avoid the bubble problem altogether use an clear acrylic bonding primer that will actually bond with the aluminium. After that you just put on a coat of acrylic paint. You may find this all to be a pain in the ass so, if it was your fault, you may just want to have a competent gutter company replace them. They aren't expensive.

All this said I think you have a lot more options than writing this off to a "beginners mistake" as there are many factors that will cause the condition you describe. You need to determine what caused it and discuss with the homeowner and come to a amicable solution.

Best of luck.

Bleemus

 

[JESSE]

Derek,

I have had this same situation happen on a town home less than 4 years old.

In my case we were hand brushing the gutters with a soft bristle brush because of expensive flowers. The paint peeled right off at 2 separate corners of the same gutter for no apparent reason. The rest of the home went perfectly before and after this.

Luckily my contracts cover situations like this so I wasn’t to worried - but I did not want to look like a hack either so I repainted the damaged areas with 2 light coats of Rustoleum flat white aerosol. It looked great and the customer was pleased. I still think she blames us but I know that simple green is safe and we never let it dry.

Now I use simple cherry and have not had any problems yet......but it could happen again.

Good luck.

Jesse

 

[PressurePros]

Ahh, seems like you haven't forgotten about my experiment. Just to be clear it was $79. Even the big multi truck companies down in this neck of the woods don't charge anywhere near $400 for any reasonable sized house. The "best" guy in town, according to other contractors, charges about 150-175 for a 2200 sf two story house. Your market may be different. As for my "experience" I have started and sold two successful restaurants, helped start an internet company that now employs 85 people and is profitable. Also have sailed around the world, lived in Tahiti, danced with the Maoris and shoot golf in the 70s regularly. I have lots of experience. Running a pressure washing business is not brain surgery and fufilling the requirements of professionalism, fiscal responsibility, customer service and quality work are things I have been doing my whole life. I am happy that you are learning the importance of all of these components to a successful business as well.

As for the gutter damage would you also feel that he would be responsible if contracted to wash a wooden wall and during the wash a huge hole developed in the wall revealing massive termite damage that was not apparent during initial inspection and estimate? Should the pressure washing contractor now be responsible for replacing any damage created by the preexisting termite infestation? Is it really "his problem"? Just curious.

Cheers.

My man, we see a hundred of you come and go every day. As far as my credentials as a businessman.. I have owned successful businesses since I was 16 years old, I graduated with a degree in economics from Wharton. I have written articles for an entrepreneur magazine, the PA Restaurant Association and first got involved in this business 18 years ago.

How about we back up the ship and say we are both qualified to run profitable ventures? Put your ego back into your pants as I'm fairly certain as your Napoleonic condescension indicates, there is plenty of room. What you are NOT qualified for, is giving advice about detergents or procedure. Perhaps you can step back and listen for a change. You may be used to being the HNIC but you how about giving us (and the newbies you are apt to misinform as you are one of them) a little break?

 

[Bleemus]

My man, we see a hundred of you come and go every day. As far as my credentials as a businessman.. I have owned successful businesses since I was 16 years old, I graduated with a degree in economics from Wharton. I have written articles for an entrepreneur magazine, the PA Restaurant Association and first got involved in this business 18 years ago.

How about we back up the ship and say we are both qualified to run profitable ventures? Put your ego back into your pants as I'm fairly certain as your Napoleonic condescension indicates, there is plenty of room. What you are NOT qualified for, is giving advice about detergents or procedure. Perhaps you can step back and listen for a change. You may be used to being the HNIC but you how about giving us (and the newbies you are apt to misinform as you are one of them) a little break?

You didn't answer my question regarding the termite damage, Why is that? Certainly they taught you to read the question first at Wharton before answering. If not you could have saved some money and gone to a community college. Harvard Business School would have instructed you to read the question and answer it before injecting your own personal feelings which indicates that you felt personally attacked by my answer which is not the case. I have read most of the posts on this forum and, now and again, you provide insightful and educational remarks and for that I admire you. Try not to climb up on the "I know everything about pressure washing" soapbox too often though because if it were truly a difficult business to learn and excel at you would have seen it offered as a class at Wharton.

Please answer the termite question.

 

[squirtgun]

Bleemus,
In at least 2 posts now you have made remarks about the ease of entering the pressure washing business as though you frown upon those whom do it for a living.If this is infact the case you may want to rethink associating yourself with people you project the image of being superior to.We as an industry are down to earth,honest,hard working and willing to lend a hand to anyone that is bright enough to know when to shut up and listen.
There is a fair amount of business 101,marketing, math and chemistry that go into ths business.Those who fail to learn the basics fail to thrive and they go out of business quickly.There are plenty of college grads that run pressure washing businesses and are far more profitable than many in the corporate world.
The gutters need to repainted.Why?Although it may have not actually been the contractors fault,it is the one thing the customer will never forget about the job.They in turn will tell 2 friends,who tell 2 friends and so on.Sometimes you have to take a look at the effect something like this will have on the back end.
No,termite damage would fall under faulty construction materials and/or pre existing conditiond beyond my control.Every contractor should also have a "notes" area on their contract to list said problems.No,you will not catch them all,but questionable siding is usually visible with the naked eye.Also,if you are using the proper cleaning method for siding( low pressure) the risk of damaging wood siding that severly is low.

 

[Larry L.]

I owned a bag of marbels and won the loud fart contest plus fished everyday in the bathtub,I also own a pet worm.


Ken it would be best to do like the contractor,move on without doing the add on.He'll find out they are alot of scfi to this trade moreso than he thinks.

 

[Bleemus]

Bleemus,
In at least 2 posts now you have made remarks about the ease of entering the pressure washing business as though you frown upon those whom do it for a living.If this is infact the case you may want to rethink associating yourself with people you project the image of being superior to.We as an industry are down to earth,honest,hard working and willing to lend a hand to anyone that is bright enough to know when to shut up and listen.
There is a fair amount of business 101,marketing, math and chemistry that go into ths business.Those who fail to learn the basics fail to thrive and they go out of business quickly.There are plenty of college grads that run pressure washing businesses and are far more profitable than many in the corporate world.
The gutters need to repainted.Why?Although it may have not actually been the contractors fault,it is the one thing the customer will never forget about the job.They in turn will tell 2 friends,who tell 2 friends and so on.Sometimes you have to take a look at the effect something like this will have on the back end.
No,termite damage would fall under faulty construction materials and/or pre existing conditiond beyond my control.Every contractor should also have a "notes" area on their contract to list said problems.No,you will not catch them all,but questionable siding is usually visible with the naked eye.Also,if you are using the proper cleaning method for siding( low pressure) the risk of damaging wood siding that severly is low.

I do not frown on anyone. If you read my replies to the original poster I provided him with useful advice regarding how to repaint aluminium gutters which I noticed that nobody else had done. Too often it is assumed that the contractor is at fault but a thoughtful discussion with rational homeowners will reveal a result that doesn't drain the bank account of a responsible and hardworking contractor.

Termite damage can happen even if the construction materials are perfect. Paint falling off a gutter falls under the same classification. All of this banter has yet to produce what actually happened and for that we are all guilty of providing bad advice and that includes you "pros".
I provided constructive advice on how to paint aluminium whereas others simply blamed him for doing bad work and to suck it up. If Google sucked it up and was fiscally responsible everytime they sent someone to a website that provided crappy service they would soon be out of buisness. Let us not assume that the error lies with Derek and perhaps realize it lies with someone else. If Derek realizes that the damage was his own fault he will tell us I presume. Let us let him tell the story. Perhaps he really enjoyed my post on how to paint aluminium. I enjoyed writing it. What you say Derek?



[hello]

 

[FCPWLLC]

I do not frown on anyone. If you read my replies to the original poster I provided him with useful advice regarding how to repaint aluminium gutters which I noticed that nobody else had done. Too often it is assumed that the contractor is at fault but a thoughtful discussion with rational homeowners will reveal a result that doesn't drain the bank account of a responsible and hardworking contractor.

This concern for a responsible and hardworking contractor and his bank account, coming from a guy that felt paying a lowballer with no shirt a less than living wage. You took money out of some legitimate business owners account when you didn't even consider him for your cleaning needs.

As for you being helpful by offering advice on how to paint a gutter..... well, your advice doesn't align with the advice you'd give to a Business owner. The advice you give assume that we are all just tradesmen and take roles as employees of our clients. A responsible, and professional Business owner in this situation, would simply make the arrangements to have a professional painter come paint the gutter. You're telling a guy that, if he's running a good operation, makes $150+/hr, how to paint something that he could just hire a painter to do at $45/hr.

So, Mr. "toot my own horn" Business Guru, you wasted your time going into detail on how to properly paint aluminum gutters. Actually, the advice given by Ken, was the best advice given as to the fundamenals of how to take care of a client. Client is always right.

 

[Speck_Chaser]

Now I use simple cherry and have not had any problems yet......but it could happen again.

Simple Cherry will work on gutters?

 

[Bleemus]

This concern for a responsible and hardworking contractor and his bank account, coming from a guy that felt paying a lowballer with no shirt a less than living wage. You took money out of some legitimate business owners account when you didn't even consider him for your cleaning needs.

As for you being helpful by offering advice on how to paint a gutter..... well, your advice doesn't align with the advice you'd give to a Business owner. The advice you give assume that we are all just tradesmen and take roles as employees of our clients. A responsible, and professional Business owner in this situation, would simply make the arrangements to have a professional painter come paint the gutter. You're telling a guy that, if he's running a good operation, makes $150+/hr, how to paint something that he could just hire a painter to do at $45/hr.

So, Mr. "toot my own horn" Business Guru, you wasted your time going into detail on how to properly paint aluminum gutters. Actually, the advice given by Ken, was the best advice given as to the fundamenals of how to take care of a client. Client is always right.

Apparently you missed the part where I told him to have the gutters replaced if it were his fault. My gutter painting tutorial was in response to his original post where he claimed he was not happy with the paint job that he already attempted.

Toot, toot!

 

[Aspen1]

Truth is Simple Green isnt the only gutter cleaner that will do this guys. I found a new company (Chomp Solutions) and they sell a "gutter cleaner" that I forst tested on my own house. The first couple feet looked great. Then the same thing happened to me as I saw actual aluminum. Honestly I dont know how old my gutters are as we just moved in the house last year. But the question or replies as I read them sounded like some were doubting the power washer or "too much pressure". In my case I was on a ladder and only used a rag. I sprayed this stuff on and whiped it off immediately. I guess I feel lucky as this was my own house and I only had to hear the bickering from the wife.

 

[Bleemus]

I am not familiar with Chomp Solutions gutter cleaner but it does sound a bit agressive unless you were on the last dusty remnants of gutter paint and it just helped expose an underlying problem. There is nothing in Simple Green that would cause a reaction strong enough to strip paint unless it was already gonna fall off.

Are you gonna paint or replace the gutters?

Best of luck!

 

[JESSE]

Simple Cherry will work on gutters?

It works great for most jobs.....sometimes I have to use f-13 for the really bad ones.

I will never pay shipping for gutter zap again :burn: it cost almost as much as the product itself