pricing

[ghouchu]

is there anyone out there willing to share their goal for an hourly rate when pricing jobs? sofar, i've been quoting whatever price i think the market will bear. that i'm quoting low is evidenced by the fact that 2 customers have, without any hints from me, payed me more than the quote i gave them.

another question that may be too sensitive to get a response: what can an individual with a 3500 psi pressure washer and a willingness to work hard expect to make in a year from purely residential work(in birmingham, al, which is a little north of the mildew belt)? please be as cold-heartedly honest as you can. if it's less than i think, i need to consider a new field, because my marriage quite literally hangs in the balance. my wife is convinced that i can't make enough to support my family, which includes 2 sons, ages 9 and 13. she's not a money-grubber; it's just that living with a treatment resistant narcoleptic with treatment resistant adhd puts a lot of pressure on a person, and the stress of financial insecurity is a damned heavy straw to add to the camel's back.

in case it figures into the answer, i should note that in fall and winter i intend to supplemnt the pressure washing by cleaning gutters that, due to height or inaccessability present enough risk or difficulty to discourage my competition and justify a good hourly rate. of course, i have to earn enough pressure washing to afford the $500 ladder i'll need.

thanks for whatever thoughts you have to offer.

richard

 

[JR Wood]

With the proper equipment and a little experience you can make a ton of money.I routinely make between $ 60 and $100 per hour.Yesterday I did a deck where I made $125 per hour doing it and the customer was very happy(as was I!) All you have to do is learn how to advertise which is easy just look around and see how other companies are advertising in your area.My method is the phone book and direct mailer postcards.For $125.00 I get 2500 postcards made up and apply the 21 cent stamps and mailing lables by hand.Whenever I do an estimate in a neighborhood I think will be a good prospect I go home and
and punch in the street names around the neighborhood,print them up and mail them the next day.You can get a CD rom with with all the phonebooks on it for $60 .The CD also has names and addresses which can be printed on lables.The trick is to keep mailing over and over to the same places get your name embedded in people minds.I have had people tell me that they taped one of my postcards on their refridgerator for a year before they decided to do their deck.Well to give you a short answer,If you are making $300 $400 $500 a day in your present job then don't bother with power washing.Can you make a good living HELL YES!!!
You are lucky if you decide to go for it you will have this winter when a lot of us in northern climates are slow and these Bulliten boards are really busy and all the info you want is available.
As far as an hourly rate that is up to you.It is all a numbers game the first thing I would do is find out the market in your area and go from there.You could decide to be more expensive and still be working.Just don't be tempted to be too cheap.You will do more work and make more if you are in line with other companies.At first you won't make a lot but as soon as you get the proper techniques and know what you are doing the skies the limit.You need more money just advertise more and work a little longer that day.I love this business!

Oh yeah I make about $12 grand from gutter cleaning in the fall for winter money and I also snow plow.

 

[ghouchu]

thanks,dude. your reply was a real upper. this question doesn't really fit this strand but it concerns a point you raised. i've not done any mailings out of concern that they would get an absent-minded glance before being thrown away with the rest of the junk mail. given the expense--to a person who tooka month to cover the cost of the pressure washer--i've not really seriously considered that route. at this point, i have plenty of time between jobs to distribute ads by hand. have you had good success with mailings? how often do you target the same addresses?

by the way, i've enjoyed the business so far, and finding this site has raised my level of excitement. without a doubt, folks in the business of providing homeowner services--whether pw or lawn maintenance or whatever--are a hell of a lot nicer, more helpful, and more willing to share their time and experience than most of the folks you run into practicing law.

richard

 

[JR Wood]

Regarding mailings.
Like I said,it is a numbers game.In the spring your response rate should be about 95% . .That means you should get 5 calls for estimates(you could hit a hot area and get 10% response!)out of the five you should get 2 jobs.That means if you advertise deck cleaning and sealing and land 2 out of the hundred fliers you have made approximately $900.So if you mail out 2500 mailers you can expect a $22000 return. This is not a typo!!!
If you mail out fliers now(mid sept to end of oct)you can expect probably 1% or even 0.5% but that still gives you a good ewnough return to keep you working.Once again it is a numbers game simply mail out more fliers to make up for the lack of response.

 

[Tim Smith]

JR

I find your philosphy to be very interested. Would you care to discuss in more detail. If so, you can email me or put on this board.

I would like to know more on how and what you do with the post cards?

Thanks
Tim

 

[mhpoole]

In Response to your Question

The key that i have found is variety, this is my plan not to say its best but it works for me. I use a slightly different approach. My business consists of Window Cleaning, Gutter Cleaning and Pressure Washing, mostly decks and i refinish them. Window cleaning i make about $ 40 - 50 per hour, Gutter cleaning is about $ 80-100 per hr, decks is about $ 100- 150 per hr. What i have found is that lots of people like to have their windows cleaned. Now i use this to get in the door, look the place over, and let the customer know i do decks and also gutters. I have found that they are more likely to hire you back just because they know you already even if your more money. Why you ask because your the window man. It really works. for advertising you can start by passing out flyers, also there are other options that work quite well. A website, gives your company the appearance of being professional. other forms of advertising, like the other guy said postcards, but if you know your way around a computer i can let you in on some really good secrets that not many people know about. And save you a ton of time. Please email me and ill talk with you about it.

Mark Poole


















Waterworksnw.com

 

[Power Clean]

JR,

My experience says that I agree with your numbers.

I've never used a CD like that before. What types of sorting options does this CD have? Can you sort by streets and/or zips?? Where do "you" get these CD's?

 

[Richard R.]

Jr.
Where would one get the phone book CD your talking about?

Thanks
Richard R.

 

[Jon Fife]

i can help you guys, the product is called 'business and consumer mailing lists' by Info USA. This is the same product JR uses, 'cause he referred it to me!! seems like it costs around eighty dollars. Pretty cool product, look foreward to putting it to use!!!

bought mine at Staples, but i think you can probably get it at any office/computer supply store.

 

[Richard R.]

Thank you Jon F. I apprciate that.

I think I will try and see if I can download it from the web.

Richard R.

 

[mhpoole]

INFO USA ***** DONT BUY ******

Do not buy any of those products, you will waste your money, if you look really close at the box, there is a limit of 500 or 1000 names you can use from that product then you have to buy the names at .06 a peice. Also i tried to pull up some of my customers and it couldnt find them. Info USA or any similar products are a peice of garbage. IF you dont believe me go to your local office depot or like store that sells those products and read the entire box. You will see a limit on there of the names you can use. Plus the names are older than 90 days which if you want CASS certification to send out bulk you cannot use those lists really if you want to get a quality list, contact me. Dont waste your time, but check it out for yourself.

Mark Poole

www.waterworksnw.com

 

[Richard R.]

Mark,
Thank You.
I don't have the money to waste.
I would definitely like to have a quality list.
my email: hpmobilewash@vvm.com

I'll take all the help I can get.

Richard R.

 

[Walt Graner]

Yellow pages under the heading of Mailing Lists. very curent stuff.

 

[johnny]

Hi Richard,

From reading your post - sounds like you have your hands full down in Alabama. Don't get the wrong impression from these well meaning contractors who have responded to you. Though 20-70-100 dollar an hour sounds real appealing- it is not like that 40 hours a week. In other words, realistically you might work weeks at a time for 2 hours and only gross say $100.00 or $400.00, that's the rough part until you build up a client base and confidence. This definitely is not easy money. On top of that, you have to deduct expenses from "your" earned money- like fuel, soaps and advertising. So you have even less money for the family.

If you are serious about working for yourself, do it parttime. Get a fulltime job that can keep you going as you start out. One that can offer your family health insurance. The cheapest I found health insurance for my business is $600 amonth for not so great coverage, and keep in mind it won't cover pre-existing conditions like narcolepsy so the medications are on you.

The truth of the matter is - most contractors are barely getting by. That's why you see so many selling equipment after a year of doing it. It's dirty, cold, wet and smelly work - depending on what you're doing. The main satisfaction comes from knowing you do good work at a fair price - that's what most contractors will tell you, when they're not bragging. They got into it because they thought it was easy money, they either got out when they found otherwise or they stay at it because they are determined to prove they are right!

Have a great 2002

Johnny

 

[Walt Graner]

Johnny

Hit the nail on the head, your smart for a new guy.

 

[Jon Fife]

Johnny,

it sounds to me like you should have talked yourself out of being in business a long time ago!!! Everything you wrote in your post was very negative, so why do you still do it?? I am in no way slamming you; i just really wonder after reading your post why you still do what you do.

Here are the facts. one percent of people in america make over 100,000 dollars a year. If you make over 80,000 you are considered upper class (the stats are a couple years old). The problem people have is unrealistic expectations. If you are making 75,000 a year (not including wife) and are having trouble making ends meet, you dont need a new job, what you need is a new lifestyle. You should live very comfortably on that amount of money. (keep in mind i am in TN, that # may need to be higher for the northerners)

THe contractors that said they make 50-100 pr hr are in-line with how i do. The way i get the number is this.

job=1,000
labor=100
materials=200
misc=35

profit=$665 divided by my 10 hrs labor, gives me 66.50 per hour. That does not take in to consideration insurance, vehicle exp, office, advertising, etc. Also does not consider my time picking up products, etc. But you still come out pretty good. If you had an office job you wouldn't get re-embursed for time spent driving to work, time at home reading material, etc.

another advantage we have are the tax breaks. When we buy new computers, etc. we get to write them off!!

The facts are that if you want the best chance of making a lot of money, you have to be self-employeed. Are you saying, "ya, but the rich self-employeed people are in finance and dot-coms and such"...........wrong. Most millionares have jobs like own janitorial businesses, make bolts, plumbing companies, etc. There are guys around here that make over 1,000,000 pr yr owning lawn services!!

I have mentioned this before and i'll say it again. Read the book, 'the millionare next door'. This book will reiterate everything i have said. The truth is most small businesses fail. Of the ones that make it, most won't get rich. But the opportunity is there. Above all, don't listen to anyone that tells you that you can't make a lot of money in this business. What you need to read is 'they' couldn't make a lot of money in this business. The money is there, it's just a matter if you want to go get it.

Jon Fife

 

[ron]

JON i am going to go full time this spring and everything you posted is true. The part that im dealing with right now is the short list of extras[not really extras but exp.] if you spread your exp. over 50 hours of work a week your % are a lot smaller then a part timmer like me.
For exsample both of our insurance costs could be the same. Equipment costs the same, ect... but you work 50 hours a week and i work 20.
I did'nt start this biz. to become rich i just wanted to know that all my hard work was going to a good cause. ME
Evan BILL GATES goes to work. Just remember 1 thing" if an 8 hour day feels like a 12 hour day no matter what it pays it wont pay in the end."
i would rather be middle class and happy, then rich and miserable.
i know people that get up at 4:00 to get ready to catch a train to work 9 hours and still have to get home. And pay double taxes and train fare.
plus they work inside all day and have office politics. No thanks.

 

[johnny]

Hi Ron and Jon,

I hope you make a million, keep your noses to the grindstone and you will. My company and I have been at this over 7 years.

My comments to Richard were predicated on the fact that his wife is concerned about the financial future of their family and the health of one of the members. He needs firmer financial footing than going into this business hoping to support the group from the get-go. It just doesn't work that well. He needs insurance for medication in addition to business insurance to cover any falls from a ladder if he also plans to clean gutters.

If you go into this business, treat it like a business. Walt says a business plan. It's a road map. It's the best way to go. As somebody said, if you don't know where you're going how are you going to get there. It really does take more than luck!

Bottom line: Richard asked for opinions (and we know what they are worth) I gave him mine. If you heart is set on this business - get a good fulltime job - with insurance - and do this parttime.

Have a great New Year and don't forget your taxes.

I am leaving town with my group and we're heading to a warmer climate for some R and R.

Johnny

 

[Richard R.]

Richard,

As for JR's advise, You can definitely take it to the bank including the CD. I've known him since I've joined and I have never seen him give bad or false advise. He is very successful and if you follow his plans, you will too.

Granted, some things work for some that don't always work well for others, as for the CD, I encourage you to get it if you can afford it. It's a big yellow box called "MAILING LISTS", it's for the Business and Cunsumer and costs about $89.00 at Staples. I bought one after Jon Fife told me what it was and I'm having a great time with it. I don't know whether it is because I've lived in the area and personally know the big name people, but I've noticed it has thousands upon thousands of addresses, businesses and names of who's who. In the small amount of time that I've used it, I can see what JR was talking about. I wish I would have known about this before.
The possibilities of this CD is unlimited. It helps you communicate to your customers as you can afford it. You can target as you see fit. I wouldn't say it was necessarily for a big business, but for a small business, it's just what the Doctor ordered.
As for the larger business, Mark Poole seems to have an impressive plan worth looking at.

Take Care
Richard R.

 

[mhpoole]

Richard

Richard, thanks for the compliment but I am hardly big business. I stay up late at night, because thats when my mind really seems to pound out ideas. As for the software you are talkin about, Have you seen the Limit? I bought the same things at the store, and couldnt even pull up most of my customers. Why? I have no idea, maybe its cause the data is old, the software is data compiled from all over the states on 7 or 8 CD's. The part I needed was on one section of one CD. The information just didnt seem very accurate to me, sure i did find some of my customers on there. But you have to remember the postage is where the money gets expensive. Over the coarse of a year, I save way more then an accurate list cost. True that accurate lists are kinda spendy, but in the long run your customer base will be stonger. Also keep in mind that if you want to send Bulk Mail, with Bulk Rates your list has to be CASS Certified, which means your list has to be verified and less then 90 days old. The post office will not accept your bulk mail at bulk rates if the information is older or not certified. When looking for a good mail list company you should look for people that pull raw data from the county records. Lists that most people sell are really leases for one year. Try to find one that sells the list to you to keep forever. Usually the names will cost approx .10 a peice, maybe less if you can find someone good. I am lucky enough to have someone like that but he only pulls data for Oregon. Also dont concern yourself with lists that say they can pull income, or things of that nature. I would only concern yourself with the value of the house and property. Its alot more accurate, Also the lists I get has a 99.9% mail rate because that data is so new and fresh. Mail list programs are not as new or hardly as accurate. So when you think your saving money at the start, just remember you will pay in the end for postage. Also a trick i learned, never use the customers name when sending postage. If they do not live there anymore you will get your postage returned. Instead start off by saying " To our friends at " or something to that affect.

Hope this helps.....

Mark Poole