What to expect from this estimate

johny

New Member
I have to look at a log house and i am not sure what to expect.The man said he washed the house himself,let it dry,stained with sikkens first coat.Took him a week to apply it,vacations over and he wants me to put on the second coat of Sikkens.How should i approach this job.I dont know how good the prep work was,dont know how good he applied the coating.I dont think the place that sold him the house should have recommended Sikkens to do it himself,unless he knows what to do.
Anyway,i wonder what to look for when bidding this job and what kind of expectations set with the costumer.How long does it take to apply cetol 23,i dont want to screw myself over,if he didnt do it right,i might make it look worse and get blamed for it
Thanks a lot
Johny
 

Don F

New Member
Johnny,

Sikkens is a whole different ballgame.... If you have no experience with it.... I would pass on the job. Our company would probably pass on it also.... If you didn't wash, neutralize, sand/buff, and apply the first coat.... there is no way you can stand behind the job and guarantee it will last... Honest - Sikkens is a beast... Depending on the logs and their moisture content.... You may need to apply 1 coat of the first step and 2 coats of the clear... or vice-versa... Plus.... how well can a homeowner actually p-wash???? Is it really clean??? Pass on it.....

Don F.
 

Don F

New Member
Hey Johnny,

It's Don F. again....

After reading one of your replies to Dan S..... I can tell you definitely charge way to little.......... You must charge enough to cover all your expenses, (fuel, your wage, supplies, insurance, taxes, etc., etc., etc.) rainy days, etc.... why work for 12.00 an hour??? You can get a job that pays more than that.... Please don't bid that LOW on this Log Home.... You will lose your butt, probably need to leave 1/2 way through the job... and give us all a bad name.... Just pass on it.......

Don F.
 
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Mike Hughes

New Member
Johnny,

I would pass on it also..........politely. Not only because Sikkens is "a beast".........which is fact.............But also because, like has been said already, the prep work and the first coat are all a mystery............this job sounds like a liability nightmare.......borderline a trap. I'd run from it.

Mike
 

Jim Bilyeu

New Member
Hi Johny,

In talking with you on the phone and reading your posts, I believe you have a head on your shoulders and you know how to use it.

Although no one seems to like Sikkens, it is a good product if it's applied right. The biggest problem with this product is the home owner, it's to time consuming for them to apply as directed so they short cut the application procedures. If it took this guy a week to apply the cetol #1, he did it in his spare time.

Cetol #1 is the penatrating coating and the base for Cetol #23. This must be brushed on. At this point the hard part is done. About the only way someone can screw this part up is by applying to logs with to much moisture content. In your contract or proposal, note the fact that the first coat of Cetol #1 was applyed by owner.

Applying the Cetol #23 is no big deal. Mask all the windows and spray it on. This should be a 2 man job. One spraying and one back brushing. Do not apply in direct sunlight. Wear a pair of coveralls, this product is messy to spray ( lots of overspray). Put on two coats waiting 24 hours between them. Keep a log on your procedure. Cetol #23 will cost you about $50.00 per gallon but you'll get good coverage with it. It may be nasty stuff to work with, but what the hey, someone has to do it. It's all part of the wood restoration industry.

You mentioned to me that there was allot of log homes around you. This could be a good way for you to penatrate that field. Price it right and don't be afraid of it. It's just another finish. The more people that walk away from it the better, leaves more for you. Once you've applied this product you'll say, hey, what's the big deal. If I can be of help to you, just let me know.

Jim Bilyeu,
Exterior Woodcare
 

Don F

New Member
My Apologies Johny...

Hi again Johny,

I apologize if I came across a little too harsh... But, when reading one of your posts... you'd charge $300.00 to do a deck on the ground and $600.00 if it is 6 feet off the ground... that has me thinking you're a little green on wood restoration.... Or.. atleast pricing...

I've worked with Sikkens a whole lot.... I've been an expert witness in Court Cases involving Sikkens a number of times. Jim is right. Sikkens is ok if you follow the directions.... but, you have no idea if the directions were followed by the homeowner....

Will you be liable when the product fails????

Good Luck,

If I can help, email me...

Don F.

ultracln@igateway.com
 

johny

New Member
Dan S.,
You didnt offended me at all.ok maybe i was way off with the estimate,but thats over the web,i like to look at my jobs first and never charge $12 an hour,i am actually good at this when i see it,if i think it will take 8 hours then thats what it takes.I only measure the deck to see how much chemical/stain is going to take me.I dont charge by square foot or number of steps.It's how many hours times $50 per hour.When i get a log home i get $100 an hour,and my price is going up with every one i get.Then more i learn then more i charge.
I think everyone should be careful when doing this but not afraid.How did you apply Sikkens for the first time,slowly but surely,right?So thats what it takes.If i didnt take my first log home i would be still washing vinyl siding with bleach for a few hundred.
There are lots of log homes here and nobody to do it.As far as this job,i can spray the second coat on ,but if it fails it is not going to be my fault and will let him know upfront.If he dont like that ,then i would strip and redo it .
Thanks to everyone for your replies,especially Jim.I am with you,you have the right attitude,if you dint take your first job on 1964,who knows were you would be in life.
Thaks alot
Johny
 

johny

New Member
Ok,one more thing.Just to make sure i really dont bid too low,here is my estimate.Log house ,3500 sq ft working area,latex paint to be stripped.Stripper $2100,labor $2300,total just to strip $4400,refinishing is going to be extra when they decide what to put on it.I am hoping to get this done in 3 days.How much would you charge,i mean a rough guess??This way i would know if i should charge a lot more,i would just feel bad charging more for a 3 day process
Thanks alot for any inputs
Johny
 

Jim Bilyeu

New Member
Johny,

I learned a long time ago that attitude could make or break you. If you want to excell in this business your going to have to get your feet wet sooner or later. If your doing this job by yourself, your going to have to bust butt to get it finished in three days. Remember, there's a 24 hour waiting period between coats.

If it should take more than three days, don't feel bad about it. Learn from it, knowladge in this field is the key. The more you know about log homes the more jobs your going to get. The more jobs you get, the more your going to learn. Good luck to you on this project. If you need any advice, just let me know.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare
 

Don F

New Member
Hello once again Johny,

I didn't want to discourage you from breaking into the Log Home Business... I just don't think that this particular Sikkens Project would be the right one to do it on...

Jim is once again correct... (he's the most knowledgeable Log Home guy I know...) you can never know enough about Log Homes, How they're built, all the different supplies, etc., etc. etc... This is a Specialized business.... Not something to just jump into... without first doing a great deal of homework. The more you study, practice, etc.... the greater your chances of success. You also must make sure you have a GOOD Insurance policy.... you most likely will need it... Log homes do leak....

I've seen many companies come and go in this biz.... Many, many start-ups since we began posting on bulletin boards on the i-net. We have 3-4 new start-ups in our area of Pennsylvania who now are log home pro's.... We've picked up the pieces on Numerous Projects where these Pro's dropped the ball.... They went out and practiced on someone's home... an did a really bad job.... This leaves an impression that most contractors are bad....

(I look at it like this.... I would not go acid wash someone's $135,000.00 tractor trailer rig.... Never tried it - not my specialty....... ((I'd refer Big Boy... or someone who offers that service...)) Why would someone go practice on a $200,000.00 Log Home... Start small, get experience, knowledge, and grow....)

7 out of 10 Log Home Owners have had a bad experience with their Log Home. New Constructions always have problems, delays, mis-interpretations, etc., etc., etc.... Those buying an existing home normally inherit costly problems... which they had NO idea existed before purchasing the home... The Industry as a whole has a sort of black eye...

I'm not the kind of guy to be a cheerleader..... I shoot straight... Be Careful, be smart, don't get in over your head because you see a big payday.... it might bite you in the butt....

Don F.
:p :p :p
 

johny

New Member
Don F<
I am just wondering what are the most common screw ups in this biz.I always have my wife in the house with rags,i wash good ,remove the finish,neutralize,let it dry and apply the finish,low pressure off course.What else should i watch out that can go wrong.?
Thanks,'Johny
 

Don F

New Member
Johny,

You should normally need to buff or sand the logs a little to remove the little fuzzies.... (especially when using a chemical stripper)... If you don't they, will stick out like a sore thumb after you've stained... if using a power sander or buffer... don't let the log get too hot or the stain will not penetrate properly...(if using a penetrating finish)... We have the homeowner remove all screens before we wash... this eliminates the fuzzies getting stuck in the screen......

Watch for water leaks around the eaves... if the home is full log up to the eave line... it will leak... If it is full log up to the beginning of the 2nd floor and then stick built..(log siding) it won't normally leak. Be careful.... just because you don't see a leak... that doesn't mean its not there... (hidden by drywall, showerboard, kitchen cabinets, etc..) Watch Appalachian Structures.... Their support beams never fit properly at the front and rear of the home.... you can normally see daylight from the inside when looking out...

We use scaffording on most of our projects. We can then wash straight in front.... not from below... when washing from below.... the tops of the logs are often missed...

Also, never, ever work alone when dealing with heights... A 6' fall can put someone in the hospital.... A second story fall......... I've experienced... Have someone with you when you work!

That's enough for now.... buy Jim's Book... awww.... wrong Jim... Hey... Jim B. should have a book coming out soon enough.... I hear he's heading toward slowing down a bit.... plenty of time to write that book....

Have a nice weekend, Good luck...

Don F.
 

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