Hard sell, soft sell, pros and cons...

[Larry L.]

<b><font color="006600">Hey if you want pat or cann't pat my [dog],I don't trust you either ,heck no he want bite pat him and see [devil].

Hey Cody ya think charisma is worth having [spaz] ,makes life and sal'ing easier,yel me see it in ya post.

for as sal'ing or taking someone that nobody else can get hmmmmm wonder how dat other salesperson gotem.Me not flushing no outhouse to get what others cann't get or may not want.Me do awittle bookwork on ya first cuzz your dog may want to hold on good a tight and jump up and down on me leg,Depends on the account if I let him do !!! cuzz me know he's trying his best to tell me someting.


Not pointed at no one [kiss].</b></f>

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Well as far as chatting about their dog, and feeling like that's a bad thing. I hear ya. But,,, I think that most people know that when a customer buys they often buy YOU! Over the years I guess that I have actually gotten to the point the where I actually enjoy talking about the customers dog. (Or Whatever) Maybe that's one of the reasons that I enjoy sell so much. I don't mind rapping with people about whatever they want to rap about. Grant it, times when my schedule is tight I can't sit and talk or hours but anymore my schedule isn't that way. I target my customers, there mostly large acounts so I usually schedule an entire day for the visit. To some this may seem horrilbe but I have landed many accounts this way. Most of the time I'm in and out in only an hour or two. However there have been a few where we spent all day fartin around, one of those I've been cleaning now for 7years, we do periodically and even done dinner with the spouses a few times. The account is 30K+ per year. So what my first visit was like 7hours, well it's netted me aroung 200k so far. I'll do it again, np!

Anyway when I talk about their dog I don't feel diabolical. Yes I am trying to seperate them from their money but,,, it's for their own good. I pushing them becanse they need "MY" service. If I don't use every method I can (short of lying) and someone else gets their busness they could end up having problems, the other guy may cause them greif, or worse yet damage their property. I don't want that to happen to anyone so I try to sell sell sell!

Cody

 

[Larry L.]

<b><font color=green>Heck I see nothing wrong in patting the dog,I'll even pat the cat and feed the bird I have alday too might as will send it some how.

I don't think its horrible to schedule an entire day to cold call a account,even tho I may have to reschedule b/c of to many circles around the block I still take the day off.To me saleing is the easy part its collecting their money after you getting something nobody else could.Yel I know but weekly turn into monthly's and monhtly's turns into 90 days,this is the only reason I say do a little bookwork.If you can handle the cash flow go for the blind cold call but why waste your time patting the [dog] if you cann't.There is a chain store in the area with 34 stores what just shut their doors wow everybody thought cann't be so they had alot of trade.I wonder how long they went without paying their bills and wonder how long the powerwasher washed before he quit washing them.Wonder how many more powerwashers they had washing before they quit.They pay soda pop man before they pay powerwasher,,,I think we fall short in not warning the newbee salesperson of the fact the bigger accounts may take 60 to 90 days even tho they said they would pay in 30,,,alittle bookwork may save them from going under.
I'll not to good to put your shoes on and wear them for awhile or each time we meet.So I say its O K to pat the Dog,,,its for their own good .</b></f>

 

[Beth]

Hi Cody,
There is a distinct difference between a bad salesperson and a hard closer. There are those who close hard, well. However, I personally prefer the consultative modle. It is out there. It is real. Check the links in one of my prior posts to see what it's all about.

Consultative selling is not at all about a pitch that's canned, its about discovering the clients needs, understanding their particular business AND personal reasons for buying, and then using them to position your product or service, so they will buy it. Period.

Andy was dead on right in his last post.

Do I ask for the order? Yes, and no. I ask them what the next step is, yes. Sometimes it's an order, sometimes it's not an order -YET. I ask them when they plan to buy, I ask them if the budget is set. I ask them where we stand among the compeditiors, and who are they considering. I ask them many things, and it tells me all I need to know. When I ask, the most important thing I need to do next is something many people don't do well.....LISTEN. Watch the body language, listen to the tone of voice, and work as hard as you can to see their perspective.

Do I go back and "pester" or "bother" them some more? Not with the same message time after time after time. I ask them the questions above, and it give me other opportunities. You ask them when they will make the decision, and it gives you an opportunity to call them to find out what it is. You call them, based on their needs and based on information they may want. For example, if you know from experience you will be asked for a certificate of insurance, save it. Fax it, and call them to follow up. Use that opportunity to continue to develope the most important aspect of the process..... RAPPORT.

Yes, it's all selling one way or another, but I will gladly stick to the consultative model. I go for the close all right, but I do it at their pace, not mine. I have nice sale right now that I'm waiting for that I want in this month. But, I know it will be next month. I could annoy them and push or I could leave them happy and wait. So, I'm waiting.

I don't know if this clarified anything or not.

Beth


Beth,, Now I'm really confused. I guess you need to define Hard Sell to me, I know I said earlier that a hard sell = a bad salesperson. But I was simply referring to the fact that it's only a bad sales person if they feel it. I may be way off base here but I really consider any pitch that gets "involved" to be a Hard Sell!

Whenever you start asking questions (Many) you are essentially starting in on a Hard Sales Pitch aren't you? I mean that's what Hard Sell is all about. And YES it is a Pitch, it's just not a canned pitch, (probably close though) You go in and as Andy said you go for the yes's or the Lead, and as you said you call them back as many times as it takes. That's a Hard Sell. It's persistence! You may not want to call it a pitch, but,,, it is! You can call it "Consultative Method" all you want but in the end it sounds like a Hard Sell to me. You are asking a serious of questions that lead the customer to where you want to go, you attempt to control the entire visit by steering the customer in the proper direction. That's Selling in my book. And Hard Selling at that. It's just with the proper presentation it goes down easy for the customer.

Now another important question is after you deliver your song and dance to the customer do you assume the order? If you do then you are definitely using a Hard Sell approach. If you don't then perhaps this may be the real difference of the two. Hard sell you go for the contract, soft sell you don't.


Maybe in the end here I really just do not understand the difference between a hard sell and a soft sell. I would assume that a hard sell in the context of this post would be Go into the meeting with the express intent of getting a sig. And a soft sell would be going in with the express intent of simply leaving a contract and relying on the customer to buy later. Is this right.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

I think again for me its going to depend on the account. whether I’m soft or hard selling. We determined in a residential mode coming in strong is going to be a turn off.

Here is my analogy on selling.

Residential,

When selling a residential customer I would come in soft and then pick up pace once I got to know them unless I seen that pressure was going to be a turn off. For the most part residential need to start soft. But maybe in the end they may be harder than most.

Sure if we soft sell we are playing a number game, if we parade around to enough jobs today we will get someone that invite us in gives us cookies and lets us feed the fish pet the dog and help clean the garage. I believe to play the numbers games there are more effective ways than personal selling. Examples: flyers, brochure, mailers, signs & telephoning.


Commercial work, large dollar value?????????

In commercial work there are many categories. I attack and I use the word attack because for me it’s like a battle. Many of you know I like a good battle. When we are talking about the commercial accounts we have never mentioned the amount of money the contract. I for one with personal experience can attest that most large accounts will never be sold under and aggressive style (hard sell). No big shot will ever make a flash in the pan decision. And if we think about this would we? No when you’re making a major purchase you need time to think about all the factors. If someone were pressuring you it wouldn’t feel right.
So when going after a major account where the dollar value is way up we will be sitting back. Keeping in contact but ultimately waiting for them to make a decision.



Commercial work, peanut gallery .01

Of course each account still needs to be evaluated separately because some people just won’t take pressure. When we go after small accounts I apply pressure if necessary, in most cases when the dollar amount is low I feel its is a must. Unlike the larger account I haven’t got time to dance around hold their hand and pet the dog. I want to find out if they are buyers or just kicking the tires. Yes I used the old car salesman’s lingo. Not that pressure washing would be like selling old cars. When the dollar value of and account is low, I will be going for the throat. I not waisting my time or theirs to figure out that pressure washing is what they want. They need it I got it lets get it done. Loose one or two because of pressure, no big deal. They would not have been a loyal customer anyway.

Now remember like cleaning, we all know if you send three guys in a restroom. Tell them to clean it you will have three different levels of cleaning. Pressure will be the same thing. We all have different level of pressure. I don’t carry a gun when I go in and apply pressure. Maybe my pressure isn’t as much as Beth’s? When she told me in the earlier post she calls the customer back and bothers them after she’s gone, well this is pressure. Now how she goes about handling that, well unless we go with her we really don’t know how much pressure she really applies.


Cody & Bigboy made me realize that a larger account I do give them space and take more time. Really you just hold their hand and walk them through. Smaller accounts I’m more aggressive because I just don’t want to spend a day with someone that the revenue just is not there.


I don’t think we can use a generalization that you’re a soft sales person or a hard one. I think you need both skills and you need to develop them and use them when it’s necessary. Analyzing the client is more important than any other ability. This tool would determine what approach you would use. These steps have been touched on, but that a whole other topic. Looks like I will be getting some old books back out.


Actually in selling personally this is fundamental rule one. Analyze and know the customers, if you don’t know them develop your shills to know with in the first minute of talking with them. Selling 101 if any of you have taken the course.

 

[Beth]

Excellent points!
I agree that residential = soft selling.
Commercial accounts require a more persistant sales person. Some of the things you touched on hit home.

When I "pester", the perception of the client is that I am following up, rather than "nagging" at them since as you may recall, I asked them the last time I spoke to them, when we would speak again. I had them define when. It's called an "up front contract" and is a verbal agreement by the prospect to continue discussions. You have permission. It moves you from the "pest" list, to the "ok to get past the secretary" list.

I always have a reason based on prior discussion to call, and get the next commitment while on the phone, along with any new info. It puts you in the soft sell catagory, but you are using very powerful results oriented sales tools to do it.

Beth

 

[Ron Musgraves]

We are on the same page, just our perceptions of soft sell and hard sell may differ. Just like if we were cleaning that bathroom, you’re clean may not be my clean or vice versa.

Subject here could be extended now that we have somewhat of a definition. We just like to look at our salesmanship differently. Some people ask if they can call back and others may tell them they will call them back. That’s what makes sales fun. I think service and quality are number #1 let face it we can have great service but sales has gotta be a close second. Some companies rely on just making one sale after another and don’t care about anything else.

 

[Larry L.]

<b><font color=green>{"I think service and quality are number #1 let(s) face it we can have great service but sales has gotta be a close second."}

I think sales should be way on down the latter like 8 or 9 and communication should be in there around in # 3 place.After the sale is made you've done the easy part,service and quality is now in play.After you have my bussiness,if you try to sale me something every or every other time we meet,it want take me long to avoid you.


{"Some companies rely on just making one sale after another and don’t care about anything else."}


Depends,as a salesperson I see nothing wrong with it.,,,,,,,,,


Better stay out of dat bathroom and leave my corn cobs along

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Well Bigboy,

You have been petting the dog too much. If sales are not at the top you wont have any customers to communicate with. Sales will be the fundamental start of your communication. After you sell them I haven’t any time to keep going back and pestering them.


Sales will be the foundation of your communication relationship. No one said we are going to take a gun with us every time we go see a customer. bigboy you read into the post to much. Maybe you do this on purpose. That’s what they tell me anyway.


About the guys who just sell and care about nothing else. I have a problem with those guys, they are usually the one to damage and hack prices.

 

[Andy Wheatley]

Thought I'd share this from a newsletter I just read: It relates to what all of you said about follow-up & keeping your customers happy.

"it can be 30-40% more expensive to acquire new customers than to hold on to your existing ones."

"a 5% increase in your overall customer retention will give you a 25 to 55 percent increase in your profitability."

To summarize, the article stresses an on-going line of communication & says to establish a method of ranking to determine who will be followed up with by phone, mail, & face to face contact. Most profitable - frequent face to face. Average - by means of more cost effective measures like the phone.

Sounds good but I know I won't be able to determine this for myself because I don't crunch numbers that much. Maybe I should.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

ANDY,

I’m not arguing about the communication process. I believe my priority is sales, my skills are sharpen for sales. My business is # 1 because of quality and customer service. It’s large and most prospering because of a good sales staff. There would be no customers to take care of if this where not the order.

Recap

Quality work #1

Good sales force #2

Great customer service #3

Bottom line if I didn’t have quality work, I could not a sales staff. No sales staffs any need to worry about customer service because I wouldn’t have customers.

Hand in hand we all know that these are important things and no matter what your preference is as far as order that’s your call.


That’s is my argument and is another post all together. Let’s keep on track as to what this post is about unless Beth wants to take it another directions. Establishing a relationship with your customers only comes during a sale, after the sale is made you can enhance that relationship of course. But that’s a whole other post. Perhaps you should start a thread tittle (bang for your buck) not to sound like and a_ _ but sometimes this starts people in crazy directions.

However I think another thread should be opened so others understand where we are.

Andy, so you don’t miss this it really would be another good post because it would be and interesting topic to see how the guys maximize there customer base. I have a calendar that has specials on it and we theme the month. This way my customers know the specials from that month. Example Jan is Awning, Feb is interior floors, march is pool decks, ect. This way my sale people can surely mention the calendar and remind them. You wouldn’t believe the response, (customer responding)‘ I was going to ask about that.’ all the time they had already had it planted in there head. Why? Because the calendar is handing above there desk and they see it every day.


My final word on anything but a hard sell and soft sell. Open another thread, if we are going down this path please.

 

[Larry L.]

bigboy you read into the post to much. Maybe you do this on purpose. That’s what they tell me anyway.


<b><font color=green>haha maybe so.,

Next time I'm out saleing I'll kick the dog choke the cat and eat the bird.That way I've started the fundamental and communication in one easy step.</b></f>


Quality work #1

Good sales force #2

Great customer service #3
<b><font color=green>

There would be no #1 if #2,#3 wheren't there.

Good sales force #1=quality

Great customer service #2=quality

Quality work #3=#1 and #2</b><f/>

After you sell them I haven’t any time to keep going back and pestering them.

<b><font color=green>Why not,</b></f>

{"About the guys who just sell and care about nothing else. I have a problem with those guys, they are usually the one to damage and hack prices."}

<b><font color=green>Maybe I do look to deep into a post but I was told long time ago there is a difference in would and could or vice versa.I will take the time and go back not to pester but to see if I can help in other ways,which does not take long.If you go to all the trouble to get an account why leave a open spot for another salesperson.To me you have let your guard down and giving me a chance at getting your bussiness by not having any time,,,this what makes saleing fun to me b/c its easy to kick puppies around when daddy dog is over the hill looking for somthing else for me to come after.......guess you can tell my now I like keying on that type of salesperson.......when I pick up his sen't me say on his trail until I get or take what I want from him.

No this is not in any way pointed at anybody but letting the newbee's know there is somebody out there that will key on all their accounts if their gaurd goes down in anyway,all it takes is a good dog looking for something to eat and when he finds it he'll eat until his full.

have a great Holiday </b></f>

 

[Beth]

Morning all!
Have to get a move on and get out to do my estimates. Rod and I BOTH have routes today!

I'll address the last few posts this weekend.

I want to address that rather than ranking them in importance, try viewing them as gears in an engine. If one does not work, it doesn't run or if it does not very well. Your sales staff is no more important than your crews, or your marketing staff. All need to perform with excellence as a team and understand the functions of the other. Were it not for sales, the crews would have no work. Were it not for Marketing, the company would not have leads or a good position in the market. Were it not for quality service, the clients would not return, and the company's reputation would become diminished.

Later on I'll share one of my favorite sales tools with you - it's called "stripping line".

 

[Larry L.]

<b><font color=green>Good morning

You can tell I'm not in no hurry this morning and if they don't watch me I'll strip some line myself.

O k the wagon want move unless the horse-e are hooked to it and the horse want go unless you feed and care for them,hey now I get it TEAM WORK without NO broken chains.

[horse][whip] now we're getting some where.</b></f>

 

[Ron Musgraves]

I’m in a bigger hurry this morning but it aint work, it’s the kids. Off to the ball park!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Oh Beth one thing, I didn’t subtitle each category, but don’t you think your crews would fall in quality being number one. I mean if your crew are not being taken care of your not going to be the best???? Open another thread guys if you want to discuss this one. Let’s go over the process.

 

[Beth]

Ron,
Actually, if you reread my post you'll see I didn't rank what I was speaking about in any order at all. I didn't and I won't. As I said, no singular piece of an organization is more important than another, for if any pieces are missing or underperforming then the whole organization is affected.

Excellent Service (product) is important
Excellent Marketing and Sales are important
Excellent Operations and Finance are important

All have to work together. I can't stress that enough. I don't care how well you seel, if the crews do shoddy work and the clients compalin, because in a couple of years not only will they NOT be back but they will bad mouth you. I don't care how wonderful the job you do is, because if you don't Market well and advertise, then follow up on sales leads, return calls to clients, etc., etc., then you won't gain market share and grow, and people won't be able to find you.

Companies should be viewed at the highest level, as a whole with each department clearly defined.

Now then.....stripping line ... It's a sales tool and in Corporate America is especially handy when yoiu aren't sure which direction the prospect is heading. Basically, it's a tactic that is much like reversing direction on them. (verbally) What it does is it either brings them closer to you, in which case you know you are still in the game and you get more information, or they verify that they are not interested. I'm sure we all know what it's like to be avoided. This tool breaks up the avoidance. You simply send the message that you believe they are not interested, and then see what they say. ***Don't do this unless you feel they are not interested.***

Beth

 

[Power Clean]

This post was good reading that has gone bad.

Ron, your downgrading of Bigboy's technic or ideas I think are totally unjustfied. So-what if he has a different opinion. It sounds to me that his knowledge of the business has supported he and his family well. He has definitely helped me on this board along with many, many others.

I welcome everyone's ideas and input, but to continue and specifically degrade, on this board, a specific persons opinion, is wrong! I welcome your expertise Ron, but please ease off some.



Roy

 

[Cody]

<span style='filter:shadow(color=#FF0000 ,direction=135); width: 500; color: #FFFF00;'><font size=+2>I don't do too much Residential anymore but when I did, I closed on them twice as hard as I do commercial. None of my homeowners were cold calls. They all had called in via some from of marketing that I was doing, so that automatically is a significant buying sign. Thus they obviously want your service, so you ahve to close hard and alot to give them the oppurtunity to say YES! With my commercial clients I'm aggressive but not as since they are usually the result of cold calling, they are not actively pursueing cleaning.

Anyway, to me if they are calling "YOU" they WANT to BUY, They've iniatiated it, now it's your job as the salesperson to find the right combination of words &/or gestures to allow them to say YES!

Just a note
Cody</font></span>

 

[Larry L.]

<b><font color=blue>Dang Cody,edit with this # so I can see "FF00FF",Made me want a dog sandwi'd.</b></f>