Insurance

[Richard R.]

Just checking if anyone has ever had to use their insurance.
I contacted one of our most popular Power Wash Insurance Agencies not long ago and found out that they did not cover the surfaces that we work on.
I'm not real sure this really helps us as far as insurance goes.
I also think this is a topic that needs to be addressed by each of us. I don't mean to sound negative about insurance companies but it almost seems like a rip off. If they don't cover things like this, our companies take a very large risk of being sued, and the courts will difinitely summons all your records.
I have car insurance that covers cars that I accidently hit, but yet the some of the power wash insurance companies took out the liability section that covers the surfaces we accidently damage.
The lady told me that if they covered surfaces that they would be paying off to many claims of all of the rookies that get started in this business.
Like many other insurance companies, it sounds like no one wants to insure us unless we can guarantee we won't damage anything. In other words, if they can't get filthy rich off off us, they won't insure us at a decent price.
Does anyone else have an insurance company that covers property claims that we accidently damage?
So far, they only cover things like if water gets inside and causes water damage.

Thanks
Richard R.

 

[outlaw]

Richard,
I totally agree with everything you said, I only pay my bussiness insurance so I can use it as an advertizing plus, everything else (I hope) is covered in my contract/disclaimer, If not then I'm sure somebody will find a reason to sue me, as so many people these days seem to make a living off of it, however untill such things are actually govened by the feds and lawers arnt making so many mega bucks off of frivoulsy law suits, then I guess were screwed
Gav

 

[Harold Brantley]

Richard, check out Joseph Walters Liability Insurance. They DO cover the surface you are washing. I know some think they are a little high priced, but what good is low priced insurance if you are not covered when you need it? I'll pay a little more for the peace of mind.

 

[outlaw]

I went through them, and they told me they dont cover that.
Gav

 

[the_GUNN_man]

Went through them to. Same thing. Don't cover what you are working on.

 

[ron]

harold

i sure hope your right and the others are wrong.
Now im going to have to call them.

 

[reedsterstl]

Let us all know what you find out. I was told they did cover what I was working on. That's the reason I went with them.

Reed

 

[Harold Brantley]

I just called Joseph Walters Ins. They said that after 9-11, they dropped the coverage for the surface you are cleaning. However, if you had this coverage with them already, prior to 9-11, it was not taken away and you will continue to have it in the future. If you call for insurance now, you will not get it.

She did say that they were the only ones that offered this coverage prior to 9-11. She also said that in the years that they covered the surface you are cleaning that no one had ever filed a claim for damages, so it seems that the risk is pretty low. She said that sometime in the future it may be added back.

Hope this answers most questions. If not, call them and they will be happy to explain further.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Well, that makes me happy that I had "Care, Custody, and Control" insurance already. If they ever add it back, you can bet it won't be cheap!

 

[Dirk Werner]

Why do the incidents from 9/11 justify eliminating policy holders coverage on surfaces being cleaned. Sounds to me Joe Walters was just looking for a scapegoat. If he specializes in pressure washing, then what is he insuring you all for. You can get vehicle and equipment insurance anywhere!

 

[Richard R.]

Harold,
I just stumbled back across this thread and I am surprised they told you this.
I checked there company a long time ago when i first got into this business and they were talking about the no surface coverage before 9/11.
Sounds like they are using the 9/11 in their favor.
Take Care
Richard R

 

[Paul B.]

Are you sure it's the agency that eliminated the coverage or is it the underwriter? Unless there is no money in it for them the agency has nothing to lose except customers, whereas the underwriter has to write the check.

There are a lot of exclusions on all policies written - be it residential or commercial (I think the states lack the teeth or gonads to make it fair game for the consumer - too much $$$ in the pockets from these special intrest groups.) Same thing with credit card rates - at one time 25% interest was considered unlawful (these are shylock rates) but today they get away with 25% in most states and no one blinks an eye. Had a young kid (about 22) ask me one day if I thought 25% was high. I told him not if he's paying 50% now.

 

[Rham1999]

Paul,

My underwriter has the exclusion written it their policy.

word for word from them:
Coverage is excluded for that part of real property on which you or any subcontractor is working on directly or indirectly on your behalf are performing operations, if the "property damages" arise out of those operations: or that particular part of any property that must be restored, repaired, or replaced because" your work " was incorrectly performed on it.

Pretty long winded for "tuff luck fella"!

I have a section in the disclaimer on the back of my contracts covering my rear because of this lack of protection. Hope I never have to see if it will hold up in court if a suit would ever be filed against me, but it couldn't cover me any less than my policy does!

Roger....

 

[Paul B.]

Roger,

That's not what I meant (my policy book has the same waiver).
I was referring to who initiated dropping the CC&C.

 

[Paul B.]

Even though doctors have malpractice insurance, I don't think auto body shops are covered for doing a bad repair job to a car.
I'm sure there are a lot of other business in the same boat as the new P/W's are at the present time.

I'd be curious to know of the P/W's that carry insurance (nothing inferred) how many were actually aware of the clause before reading the policy.

I always thought it should be unlawful to send a contract/policy after you made a purchase, but it happens all the time. The only choice you have is to cancel at that point or add on. With the internet now it should be easier for companies to post contract/policy details to potential customers before taking their moneys. Governments enforce everything else, but the customers are still short changed in the long run.

 

[Richard R.]

Paul,

What this all boils down to (in my opinion) is a type of insurance fraud. The only thing that protects the insurance companies from fraud is that they actually tell the policy holder that they are being cheated.
They can make as many excuses as they want, but there is no reason for the companies to take your money if they don't plan to insure your work.
They do however, cover things that are damaged during the process of each job, such as; getting water on someones $50.00 set of curtains or things of this nature, so I guess there is a little consolation to this maddness of high dollar premiums.

Richard R.

 

[Scott Stone]

Insurance is an interesting thing. Our insurance covers any damage that we might do outside of the process. That is where it is important that people know what the heck they are doing before they start this business.
As for us, If there is any claim under about $2000 dollars, we just pay for it, and do not let our insurance agency know. We started doing this when our agent said complained about my wrecked pickup. It seldom happens, and it always seems to happen with a small account that is barely profitable.

Scott

 

[Jon]

Guess I am going to ask a dumb question here but why bother with insurance if it does not cover what we are working on?

That is one of the main reasons we buy insurance, to protect ourselves from a lawsuit if we damage what we are working on, right?

Gee can you picture your car insurance saying we will not cover anything you damage while driving your car?

Ask Joe Walters just what is covered if not what we are working on?

Those that do deck work, damage a deck and your not covered for repairs.

Fleet washers, damage some guys $100,000 rig and your not covered either.

Flat workers, damage some guys driveway or sidewalk and ditto, no coverage.

Again just what in heck is covered then?

I would like Mr. Joe Walters personally to come to this board and all others and post his reply.

Is Joe Walters brave enough to post replies on all boards?

For the record I have nothing against Joe Walters so this is not a personal attack but a dare for him to explain things and not have his office staff do it for him. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Paul B.]

I just lost my post (laptop operator error) and am too lazy to recreate the list of typically covered items but the bottom line is:

There are more items not covered then there are in most policies. I would encourage all to study and know what you are and aren't covered for (if you don't already know). Make a list of what's not covered and see how vulnerable this gap makes you. If you can buy the coverage to close the gap, do it. If you can't cover the gap consider the following:

If you have personal worth of any value and own a businss, it would benefit you to consider Incorporation or at least Limiled Liability status to protect your personal assets from business lawsuits. There are exceptions where you would not be protected and you should know what those are.

An old friend and mentor advised me a long time ago to transfer as much value from my business assets to personal assets to protect against lawsuits, bankruptcy, etc.. These transfers can be thru loans, leases, compensations, etc.. This may sound paranoid, but in todays world, one business lawsuit against an unprotected owner could wipe out a lifetime of savings and future earnings, credit, etc..

You're never totally secure but as an owner of a business your more at risk than someone that isn't a business owner.

 

[Paul B.]

Jon,

Great questions!

- This lack of coverage does create a large gap.
If coverage is not available other options need to be considered.

- To try and answer one of your questions:
There are a lot of other items that are covered in most policies that create a partial bubble for you and your business (it's not totally a waste of $$$).

- To try and answer another:
My commercial accounts require me to carry liability coverage.
They don't care about the details of my coverage just overall limits. We work together and no one really wants to get into any lawsuits so they cover themselves with insurance and contingency funds. If something were to happen, we would look at all other options before a lawsuit would be even mentioned. (Begging and washing a lifetime of cars would be options.)

Seriously:
I separated the P/W portion from the Masonry business and all other business are independent. One mistake in the P/W process doesn't impact the integrity of Masonry business and visa versa. As the P/W portion expands, I may consider additional splits where risks increase. (This may create redundencies but there are options for that also.)

In the Masonry business I'm not protected against mistakes like a crooked wall or mortar gaps and incorrect procedures (this would have to be rework). However, I'm covered if we run into a structure with a Bobcat, a stack of bricks or blocks fall and causes damage, etc..

Car insurance contain large gaps also. Suing an estate of a lost one was the only way to get the insurance to reimburse medical expenses in one case.

Insurance companies can create as many problems as they protect against!