Waste water and YOU !

[Walt Graner]

Wouldn’t it be nice if you’re clients were responsible for disposing of the wastewater from their own site. Wait a minute they are, aren’t they? A restaurant is responsible by building codes to install a grease trap system for all of the water they emit from the kitchen as well as developers responsible for all run off water from there parking lots. Detention ponds are springing up like ragweed all over highways, subdivisions, business districts and shopping centers to do nothing but pull out the oils/grease sediment caused by the run off of water from these areas. Why is the liability / cost of reclamation of water being placed squarely on the backs of the individuals in the pressure washing industry.

Where does the PWNA stand in this matter of run off water?

PS
Not the first time I have brought this up.

 

[Jon]

Walt a very good question, I am suprises there has been no replies, might go to show it is all business, meaning buy buy buy so I I I can make money off the little guy.


Anyone dare to speak up here?

 

[Walt Graner]

Man, I feel like a fart in church...

 

[ron]

i have

also posted this question on this/a board was told that most places were[for flatwork] had put in retension ponds. NOT by me. Everything goes right to a stream then to the ocean. The builders put in parking lots where 250 parking spacesare used everyday plus the sidewalks
then tell you you need to reclaim. 80,000 sq.ft. of sidewalk, 1 shopping center.
I was thinking if i just used a above groung pool filter [sand] added a paper type filter and a sump pump with a float switch that would turn both on, and blocked off the storm drain.
what would happen if i just used this and ran the hose out into the grass instead of to a reclaim tank? Sidewalks dirty not oil and grease,soap biodegradeable.
Also I have NEVER SEEN ONE PUBLIC WORKS DEPT HAVE ANY TYPE, OF ANY KIND OF ANYTHING, TO STOP RUN OFF AND THEY WASH TRUCKS EVERYDAY. BUSTED HYDRO LINES-LEAKING RAD. GARBAGE TRUCKS THAT ARE FULL OF TOXIC CRAP BUT THE CODE INFORCEMENT MAN THAT FUELS HIS CAR AT THE PUMP RIGHT NEXT TO THEM WASHING WONT DO A DAMN THING TO THEM, BUT THEN BUSTS ME. I fix tires at meny state/public garages and not one complies with any of the rules and all of them have hot water pressure washers. Not evan a grease trap. If i did what they did i would be out of biz. in a day. Do as i say, not as i do.

 

[Walt Graner]

Silence is deafening

Anyone who power washes should be interested in this point, but nothing is said / done.
What could be done you may ask?
Well how about:
Using monies brought together by an organizations membership to acquire a lobbyist to help pass legislation which would lift the burden of recapturing / disposing of wastewater for being solely on the backs of power washers to that of the property owners. Or make cities responsible for having adequate detention ponds for streets / sidewalks which need to be cleaned on a regular basis. Or require business owners who have drive- throughs / parking garages to install grease traps for the power washers to use while on their site. Etc, etc….

PS
I could go on forever but I hate long-winded posts, Any feed-back YET????

 

[BryanL]

That would cost big bucks, why would they do that when we are willing to go out a deal with it. What can we do go on strike? The guy down the street would just do the work and let the water go, and get away with it most likely.
In my area I havn't seen any inforcment, I have on a few ocasions been cleaning a drive thru for one of my restuarant customers and theres a guy next door at the gas station just spraying away and the water is just running down the street.
How much more do you guys charge on average when you have to deal with the waste water, I do mainly Kitchens exhaust systems, but I do clean drive thurs on ocasion for my customers.

 

[ron]

the reason

its not just power washers that need to make these places put in a way to stop run off. Its everyone. RAIN RAIN RAIN it all washes the parking lot crap into the drain. If we had a real spokes person that knew how to get things done we would'nt have to handle the big $.
Every envriomentalist would be involved blacktop is covering 30% of every city and its made of oil. Sidewalks look like do do because of tracked oil from hot blacktop. The oil you wash off a sidewalk that has a 100,000 sq ft parking lot is about 5% of the crap going down the same drain everytime it rains but they want us to pick it up. Its a joke.
Block the drain run it threw a pool filter and shoot it out on the grass

 

[Walt Graner]

Bryan

Big bucks? Yes, if nobody cares enough about this issue recapturing equipement is expensive.

What do you think Trade Associations are for?
It groups the little folks together and creates funds which can then be used to give them a voice in the making of laws / regulations. It also can help in attaining things that such as insurance, common standards / training etc.
How do you think all these water regs are passed?
They are pushed by people with adjendas.

Joining an existing power washing organization is like paying for tellemarketers and junk mail, NO real substance, just ads.

Last call for folks to chime in, and I'll drop this again for another
year or so.

 

[Roger]

Walt,
Another approach might be letter writting campain. Everyone could write their congressman as well the President. Someone could draft letter that adressed the issues and possible solutions and distribute it via the message boards, then everyone could print it, sign it and send it to their congressman and the President. Keep sending the letter every month till it gets some attention. Also let the media know about the campaign, a little national news coverage wouldn't hurt either.

Just a thought.

 

[PressureClean]

Not to rain on anybody's parade, but you're talking about something that's our own doing here. When or how it happened is anybody's guess, but when's the last time any of you said no when a property owner told you the waste water was your problem? We don't fire up our vac system for less than $300 plus disposal as an added cost on top of the job we are doing, but there's always a chance another guy is going to come in and do it without the reclaim. It's a pain in the rear and we charge for it, but not everybody does that.

Can you imagine trying to fix it now? You'd have to get everybody on the same page charging extra for waste water reclaim by passing it on to the consumer. Then you'd have to turn all of us into enironmental police because you know we are the only one's that pay attention to what our competition is doing, so we'd have to be the one's turning them in when we saw it. When's the last time you drove by one of your weekend warrior competitors cleaning a gas station and pushing the water down the drain? Did you not utter the words "I can't believe he's getting away with that, if that was me they'd have me in leg irons..." And didn't you just keep on driving by?

I'm not trying to make light of an important subject like this, just trying to be realistic. The funny part of this thread though is the comment about the PWNA hiring a lobbyist. You're kidding right? Do you have any idea how much lobbyists cost? You're talking about a group that organizes boat rides and trips to warm climates. Maybe we could all get special PWNA issued bullhorns with orange helmets that has flashing red lights on top so we'd be noticeable when we saw competitors doing this and jumped out of our trucks and yelled "no enviromental compliance here folks, this man is breaking the law".

I don't like it, none of us do, but it's something we've just got to deal with as a cost of doing business.

 

[BryanL]

I don't want start a PWNA debate here, they have gotten canges to codes concerning Kitchen Exhaust Cleaning, which directly effects me, or would if we could get any kind of inforcement.
Take forever we all know that. All we can do now is to educate our customers, let them know the scope of the fines the EPA can slap you with, some will care and some will still get the guy who lets it run into the storm drain. What can you do? Go get another job I guess. I'll leave it at that, because this argument has no ending at this day and time.

 

[Walt Graner]

Yes I do have the costs for a lobbyist, I found out the costs about a year ago for hiring a guy here in Austin Texas. And yes the PWNA blows its money for do-da’s and la-la’s , that’s my point. Last time I looked membership was $225 a year I think, boy that’s a lot of salaries and balloons for NADA.

And Yes again it’s our own fault for sitting back and taking it.

But NO it’s NOT just a cost of business, that’s just plain silly. This is how the system works, and it does work, this clean water angle is made for power washers and is an easy sell, all we need is a voice in the matter to promote our ideas.

But hey I just love the “Heck what can I do?†attitude though. It’s just so much easier right????

 

[Dave Olson]

Hi Guys,

I do not think that the PWNA had anything to do with the changes that you have mention with regard to NFPA 96. With that said I don't think that IKECA had anything to do with the changes either. Many of the folks that sit on some of the committees of the NFPA belong to one or both of the associations but I don't think that either association had anything to do with the proposals offered by the service contractors that ended up changing some of these codes.


I believe we each need to address the EPA issues in our market area with the AHJ in that market area.

I had one account (truck fleet) that we could put wash water directly into the sanitary sewer at the terminal with no treatment (other than filtering out the big pieces). In the same county and a different sanitary district they said we would have to bring the waste to their plant and have it tested before they would allow us to dump it!

In my small town (2000 population) they will not take anything unless we would run the waste through a oil water seperator.

I doubt that we will ever be able to have an association address/lobby this issue for all of us! Each sanitary district sets their own requirements depending on their plants capabilities, volume, current waste stream, etc.

My $02.

Dave Olson

 

[Walt Graner]

You know your right, silly to think that we could change anything.
Heck, why try all is going so well anyway.

Oh well have a good one

 

[Jon]

California is making it known you need to be certified in some counties, how by putting the burden on the fleet owner, business owner and management company.

They know how big a fine is so it forces them to make sure whomever they hire reclaims.

There are a few liars out there saying the pick up ALL the water they use, like they must have a few 18 wheeler tanker trucks at each job sit.

From what I hear in San Deigo County you need to get a permit and be tested or show them how your systme works.

Sure you will always have guys who don't give a darn about any laws or rules. What can we do, nothing because when we see them the EPA cops are home enjoying a beer.

I hear soon they will be out at night and weekends looking for us.

Still the burdon is on our shoulders and it is not fair, we are only trying to make a buck.

I do agree the PWNA should be more into helping with changing the laws but forget it, it will never happen from them.

 

[BryanL]

Dave you could be right about the NFPA 96 code changes, I don't have any first hand knowledge. It's insane how regulations change from town to town, it can be a nightmare just finding someone who knows what you have to do.

 

[Walt Graner]

Consider it forgotten.

 

[ExtremeMPW]

I've made several calls here in the Twin Cities area to find out the regulations regarding H2O reclaiming. I've been told that ALL contaminated water MUST be contained (not allowed to enter storm drains, etc). After lengthy conversation, here's what the final outcome was:
I MUST contain, direct to EPA approved runoff area, or reclaim any water that has contaminates that I've added (i.e. soap, cleaning solutions, etc).
If I only use water to clean, then "there's no difference between what I'm doing and a rainstorm" (MN Pollution Control Office) and doesn't require any permits/licenses, or special procedures.
I also asked about using a biodegradeable cleaning solution that doesn't runoff to storm drains (stays on concrete for evaporation). They said that may cause a health problem and would need to contact the Health Department.
So I've come to the realization that governmental agencies would rather pass the buck to another department rather than try to change the problem areas.
No matter how hard you try to be compliant with regulations, there's always the possibility another department may be affected by it. And the end result is that the little guy gets the run-around, spends big $$ trying to be compliant, and then still risks being cited for violations.
Is there any hope? I'd like to think so, but doesn't seem any time soon.

Tim