"A PWNA conversation"for members and non members

[Clean County]

What it really comes down to here is that we just can't agree. I say "Mindset" and Larry L. says Mindgames. I ask Dan S. if he believes in Unions and he comes back with "What has the PWNA done for you?"

I guess what it comes down to is that we ask eachother questions and we feel that the other one doesn't answer the questions we ask.

I don't know what else I can add. I answered more then once what I feel the PWNA does for me.

It was fun having this conversation but its obvious to me that I came to the wrong bb with this. No knock to this bb. ITs as they say "There is a time and place for everything" and I'm in the wrong place. My Bad.

Now there is an equipment question that I need to ask Mark if I can't figure it out by Tomorrow.

 

[Dan S]

okay you asked and started the question........ And I debated . maybe my bad....

JOhn Unions and the pwna are totally different . I know you know that . Do I believe in a Union . well if they say they are going to work with you so you can have a job Then yes. They will back you when things go wrong . They will fight for better pay. They will also work for you .
SO when I ask what has the P...... done for you ...and what will it do for me ....<< this is what Im trying to get out to you .... WHat is it going to do for me worth being a member for??

I know what happen .It's not that you dont want to debate, Somebody told you to back off B/C you are not going to get anywhere
Thats okay .....I guess !!

It never got outa line ........ So I guess you can see it how you see it.

Your on the right BB ........ Looks like everbody else Is'nt ..It's always me and you when it comes down to this "conversation"
So lets draw a truse .... Your right and Im right .... opinion of course. And lets bury the hatchet .

Hope you get your machine fixed Mark does know his stuff!

 

[Clean County]

agreed. This is you and I [t2]

 

[Larry L.]

The only time this board becomes the wrong board is b/c someone/afew people on this board doesn't agree with someone/others from other boards.

Again I will say I haven't nothing againest any group nomatter what they are trying to do for themselfs and others.Its good we have people like Dan and John,one beleives in doing things one way and the other beleives in doing things another way.

I was glad to see that Dan wasn't stomped on this time b/c of his thinking ways on the pwna.Just b/c he doesn't agree with the pwna doesn't make him a bad person as some of you think he is.

What Dan has got here is a group of friends that will come to his aid nomatter what the case may be,pwn friends.He may blow his top at times when he's pushed into a corner as some try to do.

You can see what this board can do for a true friend,Dan's been in training by a group of pwn friends.

I can remember back a few years ago others where running to be pwna board members too.All the other powerwashers thought that was great b/c they could make changes b/c they beleived in changing the way the pwna was run.Agreed they have been some changing in the way its run it still doesn't meet what others want if they join a group.

A pwna board member doesn't never give up on trying to get others to join their group.Don't give up on Dan not being a member some day,just b/c he isn't a easy sale doesn't mean he cann't be sold to.The pwn friend group has plenty of time to help a friend change his way of thinking and doing things.

Good going Dan and John,sometimes it takes time to help true internet friends,never give up on a true friend he is worth having nomatter what the case may be.

 

[Everett]

I think this has been a great thread and very professional despite differences of opinion. If I can criticize when I feel necessary, then it is only right I compliment also. I think that whether or not we belong to one organization, union, association, or whatever there is one we should all agree to belong to. That is the group of professional contractors that are trying to do the jobs right and with integrity. I don't think we could disagree there. I'll admit to being too defensive in the past, as have others. I think that comes from having a passion for what we do. I am also guilty of "lurking" but I have great respect for what Dan S, Larry L. and others at PWN do on this board and for the industry. I enjoy reading the posts and I have learned from everyone, it doesn't matter what group they belonged to.

This post, is in my opinion, the way they should go. People with passionate opinions on opposite sides debating in a professional manner. Some of my opinions are the same as both sides. I personally think that what Dan S. asks in his question about the PWNA should be a motto. No group can be everything to everybody but, there should be programs and benefits that when most people ask "What can the PWNA do for me?" there should be an answer that fits newbies, intermediates, and veterans. There should be something for the wood, fleet, kitchen exhaust, etc. contractor of all levels. I am not saying it will ever be perfect for everyone but, there is room for improvement and there are people working on that.

I will further say that I would much rather listen, work with, hunt and fish with, or just have a beer with Dans S, Larry L. and the "real" pros of this industry than the guy who blasts a deck at 3000 psi, doesn't go on a roof to clean a kitchen exhaust, says he is doing environmental fleet washing when they are not, etc. then call themselves pros. For whatever my reasons are for belonging to a group the bottomline is I would much rather be in the group called "Professionals" everyday of the week. I think everyone involved in this thread previously should be commended for their professioanlism and opinions.

 

[Dan S]

Thanks for your Post Everett.......... If you are ever in my area I got some frozen Trout that I could slap on the ole grill .

Keep posting we really dont bite too hard .Heck big-boy will take out his teeth ...LOL

John Im the smiley On the right !! you my friend are on the left ....... LOL ....... No-reason just thought I would add a funny

 

[Everett]

Dan S.

Thanks, I will try and post more. I gotta thank you for the invite on the trout. That is my kind of fun, don't be suprised to see me out there. I'll let you know when I am getting ready to go.

 

[Larry L.]

TROUT is sissy fish,anybody can catch a sissy fish and keep his freezer full of sissy fish.Us rednecks only keep mean fish in our freezers like Bass,crappie and a few bags of bream.

Sorry,I cann't take them out,want promise I want bite,depends on who or what has got hold of me.

Everett its nice to see a post like yours,with age maybe the younger group want be so pushy pushy and run off mad when they cann't get Dan to see eye to eye with them.I know The board memebrs has its hands full trying to control some of its memebrs,they all do.Instead of trying to lead a group one should teach the group to be teachers of leaders.

 

[Mark]

Larry,

Is this how you measure those "mean" Redneck fish?

 

[Everett]

Larry,

I like the end, philosophy stuff to make one think! Gotta lake behind my farm, bass and pickeral. Bass grow nice around here. You guys are always welcome to bring a rod. This time a year been sitting in a blind or walking the creek. In a couple weeks we'll be pushing around those deer.

More philosophy, my eyes aren't half shut, they're half open. I can see what I want to see.

Mark,

We measure ours in 40's not cans!LOL
Good picture though!

 

[Larry L.]

*LOL* good picture but I think I just got told "our" sissy fish run small .

Does your mind sleep while your asleep or is it asleep while your awake,I "only" see what I want to see.

 

[Dan S]

I was thinking yesterday ... ( scary huh?)

Why not start a different pressure washing Org.

Why Not?

How does CETA do it ? They are every where ..

Or why dont folks like Larry H write something in here? A couple days ago when this conversation was strong , His name was at the bottom of the home page ... as well as a couple of other pwna members . Are they too afraid to talk? Do they really want answers too? and are just reading B/C they cant type too good?

For what ever reason .... Maybe It gets them thinking.

If the PWNA would do what I mentioned a few post back ....Then I think you would see a bigger Org.

Hey now you guys dont run off ....

Would'nt be nice to know excatly what other folks feel about this issue .

I think it's like everything else in this world ....You got followers and you got leaders. And you got scared people who are waiting for the same answers without input!!!

It's sad ...

I wonder if they think they will go to PWNA jail if they speak out ~

John hop back in here It was profesional before; and it can stay that way!!

 

[Doc Reisman]

Some of us just don't know there are conversations happening regarding PWNA. I tend to be rapped up in the everyday of PWNA / BBS and what are we going to accomplish for the following years. John T made a comment about involvement, participation, or even ideas. If PWNA does not know what you are thinking we cannot move in that direction. I am always open to direct conversation. My phone numbers are listed, call me.

I respect what was said on this thread. John T has a lot of passion and has my vote for the PWNA board of directors.

I have a lot of respect for Everett and he has hit "it" on the head, it is about being PROFFESSIONALS.

Doc Reisman
President PWNA

847-625-6300 work
847-922-4921 cell
262-639-1812 home

 

[Larry L.]

I think you "bend" the heck out of that nail when you say Professionals,Johnny came more hitting the nail straight and true.

When is it that you can call yourself and others a professional?,a week,a month,a year or by just having the pwna ladel on your calling card.

Its like the frog setting across the pond singing knee deep knee deep knee deep and halfway there your over your head.

 

[Clean County]

Quote by Dan S. I was thinking yesterday ... ( scary huh?) Why not start a different pressure washing Org Why Not?

This was actually discussed a few years ago with guys like Ron Musgraves and others. The reality here is that it could take years for this to get anywhere. I mean just look at this -probably around 3 yrs ago we discussed this and today there is nothing happening as far as that thought goes.

So another approach was(Which is the one I took) why not join the PWNA since they have been established for around 8 yrs at the time and maybe add some imput to make a few changes. There has been many new faces added to there leader positions and a bunch of people you know thru these bb's that have similiar feelings like you do. The drawback is change takes time.

These are a couple of different changes the PWNA has made since I joined.
1-My membership cost went from $250/yr to $195 + a free subscription to "The Cleaner TImes Magazine".
2-They added a website www.pwna.org and a Bulletin Board www.pwnabbs.org
3-They incorporated more learning classes that come at a discount if you are a member
4- They have participating vendors who give you anywhere from 5%-25% off if you are a member.
5- They have Very Active Past and present Presidents that do respond to questions from guys like you and I. (This was key for me becoming a member)
6- They added fellow bb members who we all know such as Beth Borrego, Mike Hughes and Everett Abrams just to name a few that we can relate to.
7-They will even talk to you via Phone line if needed and you know they are rock solid professionals because of what they represent. You won't be dealing with a Trevor and guys like that.(You remember that poster....I hope I didn't wake him with this remark...OUCH if I did)

These are just a few reasons why I joined. To put all the above in a nut shell...There's some people that before they joined they hammered into guys like myself that if you want to see change then get involved and the only way to really do that is to become a member so you can really have there ear.

Its like in a way joining the Chamber of Commerce. TO have a voice in there your better off joining. Same with the NRA(National Rifles Assoc.) and many other groups.

Lastly by me joining I feel like I am helping other contractors that share the same interest I do by supporting there organization which would be supporting me also.

What would be a great Idea to do would be to have a Flat out Roundtable in a place like Atlantic City with only one agenda which would be to discuss the PWNA and what we can do to get new members like guys like yourself. What can we do as a group to make the PWNA represent us better if you feel they already arent doing that. Basically With all our heads together what can we do to make this organization work for us.

The least we can do is what you and I and others are doing right here on this bb which is a step in the right direction

 

[Everett]

In what I meant previously when I used the term professional, I defined it further with
trying to do the right thing and integrity. That is a group, in my opinion, that we should all
want to belong to. Using Professional as a label, we could insert a few words. The PWNA
or any other group will never be able to give anyone a true professional label. That is
something earned on an individual basis. There are certainly a ton of guys I have met over
the internet, in my area, and out in other places who are professionals without any tag or
label. I certainly feel there are a lot of guys that aren't PWNA members that are
professional, successful, and fun. Fun is important to me because if it ain't fun, I ain't do'in
it!

Blame Larry L. for getting me on the philosophy thing but here goes more. I agree with
the past stuff of the PWNA and all the baggage. Now with that out of the way, where do
we go from here. Well first philosophical point, you can't go forward if your always
looking in the rear view mirror. We should learn from the past though and move forward.
You guys will correct me if I am wrong but, this is my feeling. If you sit in a room all you
see is those four walls. How are you supposed to know what goes on outside of those
walls? You can't.

You can't even go out of the room into other rooms and know what is going on. You need
to go outside and see the landscape. If any organization is going to be successful PWNA
or otherwise you have to acknowledge this point. If the PWNA wants to sit inside of four
walls and be oblivious to what else is going on in the world, then there will never be any
growth. further, you give the perception of being elitists. I think Doc is doing a great job
and pushing the envelope but, he can post numbers and some may call, many won't. That
to me is leaving the room and not the house. The PWNA needs to know the landscape and
be out there for contractors. A friend of mine in my area, who is a competing contractor and NOT a
PWNA member, told me that when the PWNA is something he can touch he'll join. I think
that is the right direction. Take boot camps on the road, have local meetings and involve
local vendors, support your local areas, be involved with local governmental issues, etc.
Then it becomes something you can touch. In my opinion only, I feel the PWNA needs to
go outside and view the lanscape and get out of the room and out of the house.

I really believe it is heading that way. The proof will come later and then and only then
will they be more than words. Why did I get involved with the PWNA and the Board? Because I decided I wanted to make those words mean something.
Because I had an opportunity to start another organization and decided that rather than go
buy a new car, I would fix the two flat tires and keep moving. I decided if I was going to
have opinions and ideas that I should get involved somehow. Hey, if the tires go flat again
I can always go buy that new car. I'll be fine either way, this is just a personal thing I
choose to do. I do support what the PWNA is NOW and what it is trying to be.

I put a lot of stuff out here this time. I'd rather talk to people with opinions than people
who just shake their heads up and down. I am glad we can do this as we are. Please know that even if we disagree about the PWNA or any issue, I respect you guys for the knowledge you pass on here at the PWN and the help you give others. Your right, you don't need the the PWNA tag to get that, it is something you have earned.

 

[Dan S]

I love reading your post Everett .....

John, by joining we have now have another BB to sit around and chat... Wow Like we need another one . The trevors we can deal with ..We just shut them out .and block the isp . Simple as that.

The reason I was thinking about a different Org. is that maybe it would do MORE than what is offered through the pwna.
Why would any-body want to fly/drive to Alantic City and sit at a square table and chat about what we think works and dont work . We can do it here in our underware . and save Money on travel ... loss of work ..... etc...

Everett hit it right ......... in his last statement .

John you never said what position you were running for.......

If the pwna is all non-profit then where does all the money go and to who ? if 250 members are paying 195.00 a year and I think some are paying more. Then where does the money go ? If it is non profit shouldnt the advertising be FREE? Where do they advertise at ?

This is my point there is all that money that you guys claim it takes to run a Org. Okay fine where does it go? Can members borrow against it when they dont have enough money to buy supplies? Can they use that as a low interest loan to help with Ins.? Can they use that money to help with a down payment on a new pressure washer .. I doubt it ..... The last time we talked about this you guys said that the money was used to "get the word out" ..

I think it goes for the cleaner times .which also makes lots of money from the advertiser's ....... If it is also non-profit does the President and Vice President make any? If they do what do they do to justify their pay? ..Get new members ?

I dont doubt that who ever is the President trys his hardest ... He probably does the best, or he would'nt be where he is at .. The question is what does he do? Get round tables together? Get the cruise's reservations . ...I hear thats all a drunken party any-ways. Why go clean around the world to sit and listen to drunks when we can go downtown?

If the PWNA had a good backing like a Union then you would see alot of members beggin to get in . How long has the PWNA been around ? seems to me you have just as many folks not re-joining as you do joining . Theres gotta be a reason why they dont want to be a member anymore. One guy that was a member and is on this BB said it was a joke you pay your dues and got nothing .

So now please tell me why anybody would want to join knowing that.

You say you gotta give to get . Well give what ? You gave already by paying yuur dues RIGHT?... or time away from home to attend a round table . ? Give money so it can be more powerfull.? Give your time and sit and listen and maybe you will learn.?

I think you can learn better with trail and error . You cant learn how to wash unless you wash . You cant learn how to re-build a pump unless you tear it apart (hands on ).

You can go to a metting and everybody will have their own way of cleaning , their own way to load and set up a job. Just B/C slim down the road can clean bubbel gum with a turbo dosent mean that it will work for me . YOU gotta do it your self and make it happen.

Time to watch some TV and let my mind go into space ...

 

[Doc Reisman]

DAN WROTE: "I think it goes for the cleaner times .which also makes lots of money from the advertiser's ....... If it is also non-profit does the President and Vice President make any? If they do what do they do to justify their pay? ..Get new members ?"

No one on the board gets paid. We work on the board for its members for FREE.

DAN WROTE: I dont doubt that who ever is the President trys his hardest ... He probably does the best, or he would'nt be where he is at .. The question is what does he do? Get round tables together? Get the cruise's reservations . ...I hear thats all a drunken party any-ways. Why go clean around the world to sit and listen to drunks when we can go downtown?

I am amused by the above statement. I, just like my fellow board members put 5-30 hours per week into PWNA. There are many projects that demand countless hours to make-work.

DAN WROTE: I think you can learn better with trail and error . You cant learn how to wash unless you wash . You cant learn how to re-build a pump unless you tear it apart (hands on ).

Your absolutely correct Dan, if you don't do it you cannot understand. If someone has never been a member of PWNA and never been to a convention how can they know or learn what PWNA is all about? (hands on)

Knowing how to clean is part of PWNA. Knowing how to be in business is another; education, AHJ's, working together, etc. etc. etc.

PWNA is not my organization or the board’s organization. PWNA is the industries vehicle. Those who become members have a say in how and where they would like to see that vehicle go.

I do not think many of you would take to kindly to me telling you how your businesses should be ran yet (continually) we (PWNA members) ask for those opinions from those who choose not to be members. Why? Because we truly want to do what is best for our fellow pressure cleaners.

My door is always open. I encourage anyone to call and chat with me. I don't bit. Won't give you a sales pitch on joining PWNA. I will give you information and let YOU come to your own decision. If you just want to shoot the breeze concerning cleaning, business, pricing, selling.....anything I am here.

I don't expect to convince Dan or others that agree with him. This is not a problem for me. If people always agreed it would mean we are not attempting progress.

Thank you very much for allowing me to post on your BBS, it has been an honor.

Doc Reisman
President PWNA

doc@ducts.com
847-625-6300 work
847-922-4921 cell
262-639-1812 home

 

[Clean County]

Dan S.,
The only reason why I said to have a meeting in A.C. or wherever to discuss this is only because in my experiences the only way to get things done is by sitting down with individuals face to face to discuss it.

I know in the business world there's other ways to do this such as a "Conference Call" where everybody connects via phone line. Possibly another way could be thru a "Chat line" here or somewhere else its just that my experiences are with sitting with people face to face. I guess the other ways may be a more convenient way of doing this because we all live scattered thru-out the country and there might even be a few members from other countries also.

It still seem to me that to get something done and to be serious about it then its still better to have a mass meeting where everyone is present so this way everyone there knows for sure that the "other" guy there is as committed as they are. Doing this with one guy in his underwear and sitting at his computer in the dark doesn't give me the impression that they would be serious enough or committed enough to make changes. Still this doesn't mean that there idea's would or should be dismissed.

As for Everett's last response in his post I agree with you that he hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyone can dispute that at all. What his last statement DOESN"T say though is that we should just give up on the PWNA.

IT's nice to know that guys like Him, Doc Riesman and the others Have the ENERGY to donate there valuable time to try to make the PWNA better for us members and guys like yourself because with all there doing maybe one day they will make it worth your time and $$$ to be a PWNA member.

IF I didn't have more or less just about 2 fulltime jobs I would try to give alot more of my time to help out like they do. I do plan on giving whatever time that I can spare to have more imput with the PWNA by running for a Board position where Everett, Beth Borrego and Mike hughes are at now. Can I give a few hours a week via Conference calls and bb imputs....you bet.

As far as where the money goes in the PWNA--if you can believe it--I'm on the same page as you. It should be public record at least for the members. What I can't tell you is if this is a common practice with ORGANIZATIONS in general. That I don't know the answer for. IF I do get on the PWNA board maybe I can help in getting this done.

OH- one more thing Dan S., maybe since you are a moderator here you can change this post to read "A PWNA Conversation" or something along those lines to possibly get more imput from others who have no clue whats going on here. I hope this thread goes alot further because we all know that the more imput we can get the better Idea's that one could come up with.

I'm at my "other job" now in complete uniform and you are in your what??UNDERWEAR!! You gotta love the NET.

 

[onecallpowerw]

Dan, you go. I agree 100% with your analogy of PWNA and why waste the time or money.

Clean County, everyone on this board can clearly see your desire to become part of PWNA. Everyone on this board can clearly see this is why you entered this debate. Everyone on this board can clearly see that your interest are your interest and no one else's.

Lets face it. Your only agenda from your writings is that you make a name for yourself on PWNA not for the establishment of a better tommorow for fellow Power Washers. Past board members were not stupid by no means and I am very sure that they have read threads like this also. What has changed ? Nothing.

You would be better off taking you $195.00 you spent on a membership and donate it to Dan for running this board. You and I both know, you get more info from this board than that of PWNA.

P.S. Venting due to excessive wear on the same subject over years of debate.