"A PWNA conversation"for members and non members

[Clean County]

Onecallpw,
You would be better off taking you $195.00 you spent on a membership and donate it to Dan for running this board. You and I both know, you get more info from this board than that of PWNA.

I already done that. When he asked for donations a few years ago I gave. Now why would I do that when I can get this site for free like you do?? To make sure he keeps this site going to help guys like you and I. I also donated Money to a fellow powerwasher on the cleanernetwork bb because he was having family health problems with his kids. He never asked for it but I felt I should help him and I asked others to do so if they can which some did. I also Moderate 3 other Powerwashing bb's because I love talking shop and swapping Idea's.

Lets face it. Your only agenda from your writings is that you make a name for yourself on PWNA not for the establishment of a better tommorow for fellow Power Washers. Past board members were not stupid by no means and I am very sure that they have read threads like this also. What has changed ? Nothing.

That above statement is completely false and if you know me you you would probably take back that statement. It doesn't matter to me if I get elected to a PWNA position or not. IT really doesn't. I don't need to be on there board because I understand fully how there system works and I can go to the other Board members to pass along some idea's for them to use or not. The only reason I am running for a position there was because I was asked. My only goal with PWNA(this is the Gods Honest truth) is for the PWNA to be able to help the everyday Powerwashing Contractor whether they do it fulltime or Partime. THATS IT. There is ABSOLUTELY no hidden agenda. I have 2 good careers going for myself but if I feel like if I can help something and I have the time then thats what I do. I have friends in other businesses who do real well and they don't believe in helping other contractors. My answer to them is no problem because thats what works for you and your happy with that. I'm sorry if you feel that I'm just out to try and make a name for myself with the PWNA and not for the establishment for the better tomorrow for fellow powerwashers because that last part is all I'm about. Always was and Always will be. Case in point in 1990 there was an Horrific Jet Crash in NY and I was one of the first people to find it in the woods. Then I went inside of it(The fuseloge broke into 3 sections) to try to pull out anyone I could. Then the jet Engines started to smoke(Jet ran out of Fuel causing crash and unfortunetly all the crew died so they were blamed) and alot of people that showed up ran(Who Could blame them) but I stayed inside the jet to keep pulling out who ever I could. My attitude was if the Jet explodes then its meant to be but to leave people in there(Alot were kids who were brought here from Columbia to be put up for adoption) I just couldn't do it. For anyone who remembers this Avianca jet crash I think it was considered the worst disaster in Long Island at that time(78 people died), before flight 800 and of course the Twin Towers. The people were taken out of the Jet and put On John Mcenroe(Tennis player) property since his house was right next to the downed jet. This is the way I am like I stated which I'm sure most of you guys/gals here would do the same. Some of the people I work with could not even go near the JET because of these fears and I never felt they did the wrong thing by staying away. ITs a tough decision to possibly die doing something and leaving your kids behind fatherless.

P.S. Venting due to excessive wear on the same subject over years of debate.

I hear ya. I do see why your frustrated and who could blame you. For some people the PWNA has helped them immensly(Mike Hughes comes to mind) and others like yourself it has left them with a bad taste in there mouths. This is why posts like this are good because at least we can vent here and maybe between all of us we can get some idea's together to bring to the Board members there to see what they can do with them.

These are some of the many reasons why I like to talk shop with Dan S. Yourself and the Doc Riesmans here and on other bb's.

Do you have some idea's that you would like to see the PWNA incorporate??

 

[Clean County]

The part about the Plane crash I was going to edit it out because its very personal but I thought it would be a good way to let people know a little about myself. If it does disappear though it is because I did take it out. It bothers me to read it mainly because I never really talk about it.

I hope no one and I mean absolutely no one would think I would put that there to make myself look good for the PWNA. If anyone thinks that then I will most definitely take it out. Also if anyone takes exception to me posting about it I'm sorry and I will take it out.

 

[Dan S]

Your a Hero John and I tip my hat!!!!!!!!




Doc. Hands on was for HANDS ON.
You dont HAVE to go to a pwna "school " to get hands on ....
OKAY so you work for FREE........ that counts for some of the money SO what you are saying is that it takes all the members money to make Cleaner Times? I dont really care how much money you got I was just wondering how it gets spent . Who benifits from it . Can the members use it like mentioned before????

Doc Im really glad you are taking the time to respond ;;; So please tell me ....... How is the pwna going to help ? DOnt say it wont b/c you dont have the mindset... and please dont say you gotta give for it to give to you . Those are all just lame answers.

Ho wcan having the "logo" get our business busy?

I do know this if there was a PWNA member around me I would prove to him that you dont need to be a member to get his job.
After I take it away from him / I would also give it back .... point here is I can get the jobs without being a member ....Some of you think that being a member is the only reason you are working. B/C of that fancy label. Thats sad .

Oh hey john the Underware thing .........picture the g-string ......

 

[Dan S]

John I changed the title as per your request ..........

lets see what happens.

I think you will still see the same guys posting as before ..

It's like it is too much of a touchy subject and some folks elect to remain quite. Thats okay .

What I would like is all the 250 members to stop reading and start typing .

Tell us what has the PWNA done for your business?

Tell us what you gained by being a member.

Tell us why you will re-join

and if you dont plan on re-joining please explain.

 

[Doc Reisman]

I recently posted this on www.pwnabbs.org IT does not go into detail about everything but is a good outline for what PWNA is about and what we are up to.

Thanks,

Doc Reisman
President PWNA


_________
PWNA Mission Statement:

The Power Washers of North America is the recognized leader in developing and communicating the highest standards in ethical business practices, environmental awareness, and safety through continuing education and active representation of the membership. PWNA educated and trained contractors raise the level of Professionalism and value to their customers.

The primary goal of the organization is to advance the interests and concerns of its members. The PWNA promotes a highly professional, responsible image of the power washer professional. The PWNA, through its various programs, helps its members to develop that image.



We have several programs within PWNA.

*Mentor program: connecting newer business people with veterans in the industry.

*Networking: PWNA acts as the conduit connecting people within the pressure cleaning industry to each other. Networking is what advances each one of our companies by learning through others experiences.

*Vender Discount Program: By being a member of PWNA venders will offer between 5%-25% off purchases.

*We offer certification programs. Kitchen Exhaust Cleaning, Wood Restoration, Environmental Issues.

*This year and every year after we are providing updates to the industry (concerning certification) for the latest and greatest things happening; this help keep current on required credits.

*We are being represented to the AHJ’s (Authority Having Jurisdiction) in the kitchen exhaust cleaning industry as well as to the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency.)

*Annual Conventions: to educate / rejuvenate

*Quarterly newsletter

*Subscription to Cleaner Times


What is coming up within the next 6 months?

*We are looking to offer health insurance to our membership.
*Kitchen Certification under ISO guidelines.
*Safety educational track


Below is from the website.

Membership Benefits:

* Subscription to PWNA Newsletter
* Subscription to Cleaner Times
* Mentor program
* Savings programs - rental cars, shipping, office supplies, credit card processing, business purchasing, supplemental health benefits, (savings of at least $150 per year)
* Use of PWNA logo – on your business cards, bid packages, advertising
* Networking
* Technical Support Network
* Members only BBS
* On-line Member Search
* On-line Resource Service
* Member rates to register for Annual Convention, Certification training and tests, boot camps


There are several more projects in the working at this very moment. PWNA is not about selling though. Yes we do charge for membership and events such as boot camps or conventions. The board of directors are not compensated. PWNA is a non-profit organization. We are all about doing what is best for our members and the industry.

Please feel free to call me on my cell: 847-922-4921

There are many more items we could discuss. Thank you for your interest in PWNA. I look forward to speaking with you further.

 

[Dan Flynn]

I feel that the statement Dan made regarding, bulletin boards do more for a contractor than the PWNA is accurate. Most org. are strong because of the networking they bring. Then they move on from there.

The PWNA has to some how move in reverse. They have to offer more to become stronger because the networking for the most part has been taken away. It's a catch 22!!!!!!! Good Luck!

 

[squirtgun]

if I may

If I may add my .02 , some of the posts from PWNA members portray non - members as less than educated professionals in the industry.I know that is far from true,these guys have helped steer us in the right direction,in building our new rig as we move to PWing fulltime.
We are non- members,I'm not saying in the future we won't join but for now I see no need to pay $195,when we are so closely watching every penny we spend.If in the future I see that the PWNA has something to offer our business,I'll gladly join and help promote the Org.
I do not, nor have ever believed that an Org. makes the businesses that are members of it.
I spent 8 yrs in tire manufacturing,for the first 4 yrs I fought to keep an Org. out of our plant(union)The last 4 yrs I was helping lead the pack in bringing it in.I have been on both sides of the fence,there are pros and cons either way you go,but no Org. can be or will be everything to everyone.
If I get slammed for my comments by members so be it,but for Dan S,Larry , and the rest of the guys on this bb,THANK YOU for all the help and advice.

 

[Everett]

squirtgun,

We all agreed to keep this professional, as far I think it has. This is a great example of people having differences of opinion and discussing them. I read your post and correct me if I am wrong but, you didn't say anything I haven't already said, and I am a member. Now I can't speak for others but where did you get "less than educated." Matter of factly I (and John T.) have complimented Dan S. and Larry L. and others for this BB and what they have done. I appreciate Dan Flynn for getting on here and weighing in. We are just throwing things back and forth.

Now, personally speaking, I agree with Dan S. about others posting here. There 384 plus members who can post and there are even more non-members who can post. I don't mind hearing from them, I encourage it. Further, I have had roundtable meetings and helped many other contractors in my area who are non-members. That isn't what I am about nor ever will be. The three contractors that I am closest to in my area are non-members.

As far as slamming anyone, if they slam you we'll all go pay them a visit, okay? LOL It doesn't matter whether you are pro or anti PWNA this is a healthy debate. I left that room I was talking about a long time ago. I want to hear what others have to say.
Anyone who has met me knows I'll shoot straight and I think I have here. Bottomline is just cause we disagree about the PWNA, Union, Organization, or whatever I would like to have any of you guys here or me in your town and be able to sit and have a beer and talk shop no matter what group it is. Heck, we all squirt big water pistols for a living! I still think this is going well let's keep the opinions and ideas going.

My question for you is "What was your stance on unions on your old job in tire manufacturing? Did your opinion change over time? What would you say was the biggest pro? con?

If we all went to Atlantic City I think we would probably be at a blackjack, craps, or some other table. By the end of the night we might all be under the table! Not a roundtable!

 

[Dan S]

The BB should be called >> Better Business instead of Bulletin Board ....

Here you can post a pic. meet new and old buds. Ask a question on "how to". As well as get all your supplies and new ideas.

And for the most part you get a re-ply within a day or so .. most of the time within a hour or so. You can learn how to do anything and everything with a pressure washer.And if you get stuck you have the option to call Mark with his toll free number..... Costing you nothing. The whole point being is why spend it when you dont have to.... You can take the money you saved and apply it towards your customers .. or try a new chem or new wand .

The last time we had this "conversation " They lowered the fee for members .... I wonder how many members that generated?

This Thread still remains a proffesional thread ... No hard or bitter words are exchanged....>>>> THANK YOU <<<<<

I still encourage new and old members to add input to this.
It's one of those subjects that wont go away anytime soon. If we "kill" it now it will just reappear again in a month or two and everybody will re-type the same thing over and over again. Which gets us no where .. So please tell us your thoughts.

Wont be long and the house will be full of folks piggin out on Turkey...... It's hard to believe Christmas is a couple weeks away !



~ KEEP TYPING ~

 

[Everett]

squirtgun,

I didn't realize when I posted, I am assuming you are Scott from over on Steve R's board. Are you going to his next Hooters outing? I e-mailed him a bit ago, I am 99% sure I am going to go to that meeting. Maybe we can hook up and have that beer then. Those guys have way too much fun judging from the pics. I am looking forward to a road trip. I think Dale Millere (firedkm) is also thinking of going. Now that is the fun stuff I like to do.

 

[squirtgun]

that is me

Everett,
Yes I'm Scott from over on Steve's board.I think you have handle yourself in a highly professional manner during this conversation.I may have misread the tone in some other folks posts,but I'm a "call them as I see them" kinda person.
I worked 8 yrs building tires,and when I started the company treated employees great,so I fought to keep the union out based on information that the company was telling us.Into my 4th yr I and my fellow employee started to see the effects of repetetive stress,i.e. carpal tunnel,tendon problems etc.the list goes on and on.I watched as the company took injured people and put them out to pasture so to speak(found ways to fire them).When the union reps came back I wanted to hear their side as well as the companies.The union made no promises,and I felt that in order to protect myself as well as those that worked around me,we needed to become one collective voice.A voice that would try and speak for the good of most,again I'll state "no Org. and be everything to everybody".So yes over time my opinion changed,I was never anti -company,but I did see the need to have better representation.
In March 2002 I blew a disc in my neck C4 - C5,the company I worked so very hard for,then sent me out to pasture.I spent 18 months on worker comp,before finally in Sept. of this year they agreed to a settlement with me.I was lucky,they actually did the right think with me,but I watched so many before me get the shaft.
Yes I agree there is power in numbers,An Org. such as PWNA,could be of some help if it were to meet the needs of most of the masses.I have not seen anything for the time being that would lead me to join,that may change tomorrow or never,only time will tell.
I hope nobody takes my statements personally,they are not meant as such,more as general observations,but as Dan S. stated,join in don't just sit back and read.

 

[Everett]

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. I respect hearing your voice. We probably aren't too far off on what we want the PWNA to be. The problem is how does it get there or as you kind of said maybe it won't. I know it isn't for a lack of effort on some folks part.

Another true story, I joined in '97or so and got a membership package. Would you believe I never heard from them again until it was time to renew. I would never have thought I would join again. Well that changed after talking to a couple of members who I respect a lot. Without a doubt I think a lot has changed. did they/we miss the boat with some contractors, definitely. I truly believe that there are some changes going on and it will be different organization over the next few years. I hope I can help make a difference, that's why I do it. I would like it to be what I, you , Dan S. and everybody else would like it to be. You are right it can't be everything to everybody but, it should be something to everybody.

Sorry to hear about the back. I got hit by person in a work truck, who was working for an acquaintence, on the revoked list. The accident was head on and cost me two years of being uncomfortable. As long as I stay active and work out it feels good. It's when I am more idle it bothers me. My settlement wasn't worth how I feel somedays.

My brother went sort of the same thing with a union in A.C. , Tropicana. Everyone resisted at first, then relented, a year later he was out. They "eliminated" his position after 13 years. Scott, great stuff, thanks.

 

[Clean County]

Scott(Squirtgun),
You are right on about unions. Unions represent that one collective voice. If stong enough unions can lobby Congress to get things done. Very Powerful unions even tend to lean towards one party or the other. Example's here is the teachers unions who strongly back the Democratic party and the NRA organization who tend to back Republicans.

The draw back to a unions is if you own a company you really don't want them in because that one collective voice becomes EXTREMELY POWERFULL where it could be you verses them and that is a tough tough battle.

Organizations on the other hand can represent companies and there employees very well. No they will never have the Strength of a UNION per say but being buisness owners as most of us are here they can represent us nicely.

Now if you can build up the Organization thru membership and money they can start to get some power. If you can get enough power then you can lobby Congress and even influence Presidents of the United States> Example once again here is the NRA.

What we have to figure out here is how do groups like the NRA get to where they are today. What makes them tick. On a much lesser degree but not to be discarded is the POOL ORGANIZATION @ www.nspi.org They generate if my calculations are correct over $2.7 million/yr and there retention rate is 85%. Why???????????????????????

Some how there has to be a way to make the PWNA work for all of us. The problem where having is that the PWNA is at a crossroads the last few years and its been terribly hard to get over this hump. At this hump is where you see the Dan S.s and the Larry L.'s and many others disapointed and rightfully so.

Dan S. brings up a great great point in where does the Money go?? What is the Money used for??

This should be at the very top of a PWNA board meeting. People need to see this info!! When paying for something the #1 answer that anyone would want is where is there HARD EARNED MONEY GOING!! Untill we get over that major hump many and I mean many people will be disenfranchised.

What I don't know and don't pretend to is this- Is it Ethical to show where the money goes in an Organization to its members. The answer may be NO. It doesn't make sense to me but there could be rules that I don't know about concerning this.

The Bottom line is this and I think Scott(Squirtgun) said it in so many words--"We need to become one collective voice" and in this we need to find a way to have the PWNA do just that because lets face it they are the biggest organization that we have and we might as well start from the top.

OK time to me to head off to my other job. I will be on later to hopefully read some more enlightening responces.

Dan S. -Thanks for changing the title of this thread. I seen a picture of you before and please please when wearing a g-string don't let know one see it....not even you wife.LOL

 

[Dan S]

Whatcha talkin bout john . You better stop it or I will turn on my web cam...............LOL

Im sure they have records John ... I doubt we will ever know where all the $ goes. If everybody is doing a FREE office then there is no pay-roll . If they waste $ for advertising in the Cleaner times every month , it would be interesting to see how many new members join b/c of the add. Running a business is knowing where you are getting results from your adds. If they arent getting any results in the cleaner times which all members get anyways then they need to look at the person in charge of the advertising.

Do they spend it on BEER .no when you go to a meeting you buy for yourself..... Do they spend it on classes ....NO you gotta pay for them too..... They might have to pay for the reservation but They also get it back when you guys attend..... I think Everett said 350 members ....okay lets do a lil. Math shall we ......>>
$195.00 x 350 = $68,250.00 .......... and that is per year....Not too bad for non-profit is it? That does not take into account the folks who pay more.

Now please tell why cant they get anything done.. Like Group Ins.
Yeah I know they said they were working on that ...How long does it take ? looks like to me that they could at least offer to have classes for it's members for NOTHING ..Oh but wait they have to pay for the "professional instructors". Then why do they charge for the classes to it's members ?

So belonging to this ORG. what is that you get AGAIN?

oh wait you gotta give to get...You gotta give and give and give....and then they give you the logo.....Wear it with proud my lad -- You just might get that job you were trying so hard to get but cant b/c you didnt have the "logo" under your name.

Doc. posted a good post and explained it...... But what the heck is that ? You really dont get much for what money they have to play with now do you ?

That 5-25% off is allright I guess .... But who gives it? Is it up to us to find a supplier that offes the huge savings of 25% . Do you call the suppliers and say "hey man do you give a % b/c Im a member ?"" Yeah sure I do" then they up the cost to cover their % they just lost.

what if they are in Texas some where and by the time you pay for shipping You could of bought local and saved a buck or two.

I think even though you guys give your time . I believe there has to be somebody at least making a dime on the deal. How much of that money do you really need to use up in a year for non-profit?

I dont think you drain your checking every year b/c of all the cost ....... Maybe you do .. Then you gotta look at your accountant maybe that new trk. he /she has is paid by the members.

Im not saying this takes place not at all what Im trying to type is possible answers to my own questions ........

So where does the money go ?Pizza partys and Mt.Dew? maybe even a bag of chips to go with the shrimp.

 

[Doc Reisman]

Those who are members of PWNA have the privilege to see where the money goes.
Here is some insight:
We all know as business owners there are many costs to running a company. Why would a non-for-profit be any different? Just because the board volunteers their time freely does not mean that we could operate PWNA without some type of help. We have a full time management company that answers the phone, handles questions, advertises, mails, coordinates, plans, and follows through. This is only a small portion of the expenses we have.

It is a very thin and tight rope we walk as an organization. An example: If we try to cut cost in advertising we look cheap and non- professional. We get slick brochures we are being wasteful and arrogant.

If we focus on veteran cleaners we are considered elitist. If we focus on start-ups we are not paying attention to the industry.

How many people must you talk with to get one customer?

In our own businesses, when we talk with our clients wanting pressure washing they want one thing.....make it clean.

When PWNA talks with its clients, we have as many ideas as we have membership to what direction the industry should go and how the organization should operate.

Don’t misunderstand, I am not complaining. I am enjoying the challenge and the privilege of working with so many wonderful people. Unfortunately things are not always black and white.

More to come…………..

 

[john orr]

Here's my 2 cents:

Many, if not most, pressure washers are individuals - sole proprietors - that are looking to maximize the use of their time and money. Every financial decision is weighed against making the next mortgage or lease payment. The bottom line for me is that $195 is too much for the apparent return-on-investment...for me.

In my opinion, if the membership fee were, say, $99, many of us would join - if only to see for ourselves the value of a membership.

 

[Dan S]

Who is the management company Doc? An outsider? why cant it be a non-paid vounteer? ( just asking) if it is non-profit why pay somebody. Who do the members call ? and when they talk to this paid employee do they have the experience? Or is it like e-spec and you get some person on the phone that has no clue what you are ordering. Or maybe the management company is the one who offers the huge discount .... You know rub my back deal?

these are just questions !!

Who is the people that offer the "huge" % off?

So it takes all that money per year?

This is Why I speak out and become a bore .... The members pay 195.00 there is 350 members That is alot of ..........mailings,phone calls and expence.... Who else gets a piece of the pie?

 

[Doc Reisman]

I understand fully what you are saying John. Although I do not believe others within this current forum would agree with you. I say, "Not agree" because based on responses, I think if PWNA offered free membership to those within this discussion, they would still choose not to join.

I think to myself, "If they could only see what I see?" But how can they? (Non-members) You’re not in my shoes.


I am currently putting together (with the boards assistance) a list of accomplishments for the year. This will be a presentation to the membership. I will also outline the goals for the following year so that we (BOD) are accountable for our actions to give tangible results to the membership.

 

[Doc Reisman]

Dan S. PWNA changed management companies a few years ago. It was a huge ordeal. By changing Executive Directors we saved the organization thousands of dollars.

I am not the management team Jack Pitzer and his employees are.

Non-for-profit means we don't personally benefit monetarily from PWNA. Boards of Directors in for-profit organizations take income from the company or organization they operate.

PWNA continually recycles its money for membership programs. Many of you may have forgotten but PWNA took a huge hit after 911. I am sure many of your business were slow too. We are still recovering from the after effects.

 

[Dan S]

Who is Jack and his friends?

Do they operate a pressure washing business?

Or is it like e-spec when you call in a order You get some body that knows nothing about what you are ordering?

9-11 hurt everybody that was a sad day

On that note how did it hurt the pwna? I know you guys canceled the pitt. show b/c of it and rightly so . however the members that pre-paid for the show did they get their money back? 195.00x350 is still alot of money ....... what part of that was a loss after 9-11.

Didnt the place where the show was offer to pay any pre-payment back?

What other programs is in the recycle mode?

And how is those programs benifiting the members?

Back to the top question >> how is the pwna helping your buisiness?


We had 24 guest today .......... are they shy members who seek out answers? or non members looking for the light for justification?

We may never know . But what we do know is that nobody has proven to me that it is better to join the pwna ...... Then it is to be active on the BB.