7 Coats of Behr.......arrrrrrrrgh!!!!

[Mike Hughes]

Did an estimate this afternoon for a deck that one of my closest competitors started, but did not complete. The homeowner kicked them off the property because they refused to do the gazebo. Dont get me wrong, these are very nice people, they just were told one thing, and got another.

Basically, the guy trashed this deck. The homeowner has been doing it himself for years, and of course never stripped it. Now, it has seven coats of Behr #92 clear on it. Looks horrible. The gazebo has a bit less on it.

My competitor sent his guys over, and it doesnt look like they used the proper strippers..........or maybe they did and got the top 5 coats off and couldnt get the rest...........who knows.

Take a look at the pics.........this deck's a mess. I'm not sure I want to tackle it.............what would you do?

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1471628&a=11073115&p=52021688

I'm leaning towards trying it with the HD-80, telling the customer that I will do the best I can with it, and if I fail to remove it all, he will either have to apply a solid stain, or sand the deck.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Oh.......forgot to mention...........he has sealed the CEILING of the gazebo three times and wants that stripped and sealed also. I think that would be a true nightmare...............

 

[JR Wood]

I actually did a deck that supposedly had seven coats of Olympic.But I know better,at least the top coat was behr.I took me three times but I got it off.What I did was apply stripper(uncut wolman)Lay a tarp on it and went and cleaned a few gutters.About 2 hours of dwell time and a lot came off! I had to go over it 2 more times and sanded a little bit but came out good.Whenever someone says there are a lot of coats most of the time the high traffic areas only have a coat or two(because of fading and wear!)

 

[Jon Fife]

hi Mike,

If you told me to come over to your house and you would give me ten dollars to scrub your toilets, i would respond, "no thanks". But if you said, "Jon, i will give you $1000 dollars to come to my house and scrub my toilets I would say, "what time??" Point being, everything has a price. That deck you are talking about, I would probably charge eight to nine hundred dollars to strip, clean and seal it. But, it has an unknown number of coats on it, not sure if my stripper will work, and i am booked like crazy so...........2,200 dollars. I would hate to see you walk off a job that you could possibly turn a big profit on. I stripped Behr stain last week (granted, it was one coat) with stripex at 4:1 and it turned black within about 2 minutes.

I would almost gurrentee that would come off pretty easy, especially since it is a clear. But like I said, go for the safe side, bid it double what you normally would, and if it takes some serious work, then you are covered. If not, then you get a fat check. And don't feel bad about that, because the next job you may under-bid and lose money. I have just learned the hard way (i.e., solid stain stripping) that if you are unsure about a job that you better jack up a high bid.
Good luck, Mike, and tell us what happens.

Jon Fife
Nashville,TN

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

I would use BTN II or Gypsy stripper and take it off in one washing.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Mike Hughes]

Jim, sounds great, but at .50 cents per square foot, it isn't happening! Sorry. What I mean is, the customer (this type of customer) is not willing to pay.

I'd love to try the stuff though!

Mike

 

[Cliff]

Hi Mike

As Jim said above these strippers work.If they do not want to pay for years of abuse walk away from it. I just orderded some stripper from Jim 2 weeks ago maybe sooner (dont know what day it is anymore). This deck had 2- coats of cabots clear, 4 coats of behr cedar solid, then to top it of they applied 1 coat of sw cup.
I have pictures of the deck before stripping, after stripping, and waiting to go back for after pics. Sealed it with rs lt brn, looked good when we left but will look better in about a week. I would be happy to post them but not really sure how to. It took abt 14 gallons of stripper to do this deck, railings, and skirts ONLY ONE APPLICATION then washed, neturlized,sealed. I do not understand what the problem is. Do not get me wrong if this sounds strong but this always comes up. If you are in the bis to strip deck's you have to charge extra for the strippers that work.
In the long run it is cheaper doing it one time compared to appling strippers 3,4,5, times to get worst resluts. Mike I have some of this stripper left from that job, I would be more than happy to ship some out to you to try. But when you use this type of stripper you have to apply it as thick as the sealer you are removing, other wise you will have to apply it again, then you are defeating the purpose. If you know of any other way to remove some of these sealers please let me know, I will try anything.
The deck was a total of 810 sf including all railings,& skirt,and it took me 4 hours to strip, 3 hours to seal(it was real windy that day 25 mph +). When all done I was a happy camper on the way to the bank.
Any questions pse e-mail. I do not check every day to busy.

Cliff...

 

[Aplus]

Mike,

It appears to me that your customer doesn't want to pay what a job is worth. It may be just as well to walk away from the job. Seems that is what your competitor ended up doing, albeit a little late after spending time on it. As for the underside of the gazebo roof, that would definitely be a nightmare, with all that caustic stripper dripping down. There are some jobs that I won't do for any amount of money. It's just not worth risking your health and well being for any price. My advice.....let some other poor sap do the job, and move on to better things.

Tony

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

Hellooooooooo

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

Hi Mike,

I fail to see the logic to your last post. In re-reading the above posts, I see where you guys are stripping this type of finish two and three times and still wind up sanding some off. Here's an example of the way that I see the numbers. These numbers were taken off this BB.

1000 square foot deck = 4 hours stripping time @ $60.00 per hour = $240.00 plus the cost of material.

1000 square foot deck stripped 3 times = 12 hours @ $60.00 per hour = $720.00 plus three times the cost of material.
After all this you still have to add in your labor for sanding.

1000 square foot deck = 4 hours stripping time @ $60.00 per hour = $240.00 plus stripper at .50 per square foot ( $500.00 )
Add these together and you get $740.00.

Where's the saving????

Please don't take me wrong on this. I won't tell anybody how to run their business, that's up to them. You know your area better than I do. There's allot of people who read this BB and I just want to point out the numbers and the fact that even though the cost of some products are higher than what a person is use to paying, they can sometimes save you money. The time you spend on stripping a single deck three times could have been used to strip two other decks therefore making you more money.

In my years of restoring decks, I have never had to resort to sanding off an old product and I would venture to say that I have probably stripped more Behr, CWF and Sikkens than most of you have seen. We are still stripping these finishes off of log homes and cedar homes.

In answer to the overhead, piece of cake. The strippers we use are not caustic and non-flamable. Yes, they do cost more.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Mike Hughes]

Jim,

I am logical. What I'm saying is, the customer is not willing to pay enormous amounts of money to do the job. It might take several times to strip the deck..........so, my feeling is NOT TO DO IT AT ALL.

I have never said that stripping multiple times is better or more cost effective then using a more expensive, effective product like yours once.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[Aplus]

I am skeptical to believe that any product will strip completely with just one application in all situations. I have had encounters with multiple coats of Penofin Cedar and CWF that simply would not come off, even with multiple applications of several very powerful strippers.

I would be interested in hearing about, and trying a product that truly can do that.

Tony

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

Tony,

I wish I could tell you that there was a miracle stripper out there, but there isn't. Different strippers work on different products and they work in diifferent ways. I will try to say this without advertising. The products that you mentioned in regards to the product that I mentioned, I have no doubt in my mind that it can be removed in one application.

Here are a few examples of what we have stripped in the past with one application of this product: 21 coats of log oil, 8 coats of cooked on Behr, 5 coats of Sikkins, 4 coats resion lock, 3 coats of latex paint. These are the extrem cases. You would think that a product that would remove this type of finish would be harsh and unsafe to use, it's not. You can wash your hands in it. It's water base so it's non-flamable.

Even with all it's benafits, it's still not a miracle stripper. It removes the old finish but does not restore the wood. It will not remove a penatrating finish, only surface finishes, for these you'll have to use something else. Yes, it's expensive, but so is Sikkins to apply. Not everone can afford to use it.

Some day they may come up with a better stripper that will work on all these finishes, I hope so.

Jim Bilyeu,
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Beth]

Mike -
If the customer is not willing to pay to have the job done right so as to be able to get the best results, I would walk away if they didn't sign something stating that they understand that a basic wash is not the same as a strip and that the results will not be the same. They will see splochiness.

Been there....done that.

Beth

 

[Deck Works]

Mike,
like the other contractor did......walk. I bet these customers are the type that are never satisfied. Besides, stripping a ceiling - thats going to do murder to your skin and hair if you get Wolmans deck strip on it - stuff burns.

John

 

[Bill B]

Jim,. see my message below re: removal of old latex paint. Could your product effectively remove? Bill B

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

You guys and gals who run onto this product ( liquid Rawhide or Natural Plus ) let your client know that there is a national class action lawuit in the works.

I have just been asked this morning to work with the attorneys again on this suit.

In order to join this action, the home owner will have to be able to prove that they in fact did apply the products above. This can be done by either having a receit or an empty can of the product.
Allot of people are complaining about the lack of responce from Behr about their problems, this is the reason why.

Keep track of any jobs and keep good paper work pertaining to these jobs. Keep a list of any place you see that has Behr applied. The attorneys are looking for log homes and cedar homes accross the country to use in this case. If you know of any, please let me know.

I will keep you informed as I get more information. Once this gets into full swing, I am sure that there will be a gag order put into effect. Untill then we can talk about it.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Walt Edwards]

Mike, I would price this deck based upon how much you know it should cost. The customer will of course probably refuse to pay that price. If he does then refer him to someone else and walk away. Sounds like this customer is the type that just can't be satisfied. Good luck and God Bless

 

[Mike Hughes]

Just in case anyone is wondering, I did walk away from this job. Too much potential for headaches for me..........

Mike

 

[Greg Rentschler]

Jim,


I was also told that a sample of the wood containing the Behr Products could be sent in for examination. To my understanding they can verify through a scientific approach as to whether or not it is in fact the products in question.

We just recently completed a strip job for a rather large deck in which Behr had reimbursed the customer for.... to my understanding they were somewhat cooperative ..... amazed me!