Anybody here have an Allison Ironhorse?

B

Big Bill

Guest
I am getting geared up to start a p/w business, & have looked at many units that are on the market. I really like the Allison Iron Horse. I know that it's high priced, but it looks like the most well built & laid out unit that I have seen. I know that there are some draw backs to it, mainly the size of it, & the price. But......of all the units that I have looked at, it has more features than most. The size of it doesn't bother me, I'll just have to get a bigger trailer/truck to put it in. One of the features that I also like is the dual wand capability. Secondly, it is laid out where you can work on it......in other words, it's not like having to change the spark plugs on my wife's Dodge Caravan minivan. I am new to the p/w business, but not to new to p/w units. I have used many of them in my current line of work, some good, some total crap. Any info that any of you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.


Big Bill

PS - This BBS Rocks, one of the best that I have found, only because of the people on it.
 

B.E YOUNG Sr

New Member
Bill,

Dont have an I.H. but have some comments.

You can almost buy 2 -3000 psi 5 gpm machines for the same cost. This would let you expand your business quickly.

It may be difficult to find water to support that large pump. You would than have to have a very large tank.

If the one machine goes down you can't work.

The I.H. does offer easy maintenance and looks well laid out.
Support after the sell is also an important issue you should consider.

Just my thoughts!
 

Mark

Moderator / Sponsor
Bill,

I would like to chat with you before you make a decision.

Give me a call. 8:00 AM PDT until 4:00 PM
 
B

Big Bill

Guest
B. E. & Mark,
I knew I was going to get that response about the price of these machines. I have been around p/w's for the last 20 years. I have used many brands & types. I have used cold water, hot water, steam, wet blasters, etc. I have worked on most of these types. I don't claim to know everything about them, but I do know a fair bit. I don't mind paying a fair bit more for better quality. Basically, most manufacturers use mostly the same components, they are just packaged differently on the framework. My idea of a pressure washing rig is probably alot different than most people. I plan on spending alot more money on it than most people would. But, I think I can justify this amount of expenditure in job performance & job quality. I know there is alot of money to be made in this business, & I also have alot to learn. But if you could see some of the guys in my area doing this, it is really a shame. Any advice or help that people give me is greatly appreciated.

Big Bill
 

David Saulque

<b>PWN TEAM - Hood Moderator</b><br<b><font color=
Give Mark a call-he will be able to give you some good information. Check out you local Landa dealer-you can do alot better than the Iron Horse and I am not selling a machine.

David
 

David Saulque

<b>PWN TEAM - Hood Moderator</b><br<b><font color=
One more thing, the Iron Horse is a direct water feed machine-otherwords you must have a good water supply or strong hose GPM. The float tank system works best for us.

David
 

BigPete

New Member
For the cost of a dual wand set-up, I believe 2 separate units would be more useful. You also have the security of 2 machines if one breaks down. Nothing is less professional than leaving a job un-finished. There are alot of good units available, the Allison is one of them. There are also many people who can build completely custom units. If you are willing to spend the money get a unit(s) made to fit your needs and your space.
 
B

Big Bill

Guest
Mark,
I am gonna email you tomorrow.

Bigboy, whats up w/ all this bitching & deleting of Justin's posts? You & him got a little squable going on ?

My plans are to buy the best machine that money can buy. I want a machine that I can work on, especially if it shuts down while I am on a job. Just from reading about the Iron Horse, I can tell that it is easy to work on, if you have the right spare parts on hand. I know that I am gonna have to have a large water tank, I am planning on having a 500 - 600 gallon tank, equipped w/ a float valve. I am not really sure how many GPM pump I want, but I am thinking 8 - 10 GPM. I do know that I will probably not go any higher than 3000 - 3500 psi. There are other features on the Allison machine that I like too. Stainless Steel, not many others have a stainless frame. Large fuel tanks. Easy access to the pump. The engine is not crammed up under the heater. Large heater. The list goes on & on.
I am here to learn. If somebody has other ideas that they think will help me, sound off. My old man told me when I was a kid to keep your eyes & ears open. That's what I am here doing.

Thanks for the help.

Big Bill
 

David Saulque

<b>PWN TEAM - Hood Moderator</b><br<b><font color=
Justin needs to follow the rules and etiquette of this bb. When someone steps over the line we will delete and edit. This bb has been working for quite some time without Justin's vast knowledge and experience. I think we will get along fine, thank you.

Now Big Bill what can we do for you?


David:)
 

Cody

New Member
Originally posted by Big Bill
B. E. & Mark,
I plan on spending alot more money on it than most people would. But, I think I can justify this amount of expenditure in job performance & job quality. I know there is alot of money to be made in this business, & I also have alot to learn. But if you could see some of the guys in my area doing this, it is really a shame. Any advice or help that people give me is greatly appreciated.

Big Bill

<font color=e87400>
A) Go buy it, sounds like your mind is made up.

B) Don't think that the equipment is going to do the work for "you" any better than a Home Depot machine is going to do for "me". It's the operator, not he machine!

C) Just because some of the guys in your area don't "look" good doens't mean that they don't do great work.

PS When you get ready to sell that Iron Horse shoot me an email I'll give ya $2k in a year for it.

Just FYI.
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
I'm not bitching nor do I have a squable with Justin,just explaining the rules on this board which he cann't respect.Yes,post will be edited or deleted if you cann't fallow the rules,and over time if they still cann't respect this board they will be banned.I think Justin has had plenty of time to respect its owner and its Mods.If he has no respect here do you think he will have respect for you....He has his way of doing business and we have our way of doing business,,,,,,,,,I respect his but he doesn't respect ours.

If you have been around powerwashers for 20 years you should know what you want.I've been around only 12 years and know what I want in a powerwasher,I strip them and add what I want.
 

ron

New Member
this is a very simple thing to do. Each iron horse come's with free schooling on how to work on them. Go to the free school and see if it's for you.
500 gal tank and a 10 GPM UNIT, GET'S YOU 50 MIN OF WASH TIME. Add a 6 gpm spigot to fill that tank as your washing should get you another 45 min before you run everything dry. With start's and stop's maybe you'll get 2 hour's toptal wash time then stop to refill tank and start over.
When you only use 1/2 the GPM or one wand. Where and how dose the extra water go? Dose the heater know your only useing 1/2 GPM and use less fuel? To heat 10 gpm with a unit that size you either need a longer coil or higher heat in the camber, or both. Which is it? You do know that their are law's about fuel tank size's? Iron horse is not the only washer builder to think of bigger tank's. You say "you'll just get a bigger trailer" What are you useing to pull that trailer?
I see some joker selling IH unit's off ebay right now. Are you him?
Let me ask you a question or two.
What line of work has given you the exsperiance of useing multiable wash unit's FOR 20 YEAR'S?
Why now are starting your own buissness?
What type of work are you after?
Why so much hot water? winter fleet washing,flatwork and industrial cleaning are the thing's that come to mind.
If you want to wash some fleet's with 2 wands and want hot water wash and a cold rinse. Can a iron horse do that?
One hot wand and one cold. If it cant then i would have no use for it. If you do know, then you have done a lot more checking into the iron horse then anything posted or prnted and have made-up your mind and are wasteing our's.[no offence intended]
I just cant see mounting this to an open trailer. So why would a stainless steel frame be so important? My unit never get's wet.
In 20 year's of useing a pressure washer/washer's your so unimpressed with them your going to go with a wash unit you have never tried. Interesting.
What has impressed you the most about what brand of wash unit you have used? What was the least impressive?
One last thing WOULD YOU MOD'S JUST GET RID OF JUSTIN OR JUST LET HIM GO ON!? IM SICK OF THE WASTED TIME.
Justin, you seem like a nice guy, you have your own bbs, why do you bother wasteing your time here?
PLEASE DONT EITHER POST RESPONSE'S, JUST ACT ON THE QUESTION'S. PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
Fix this before their is nothing left too fix.
 

oguard

New Member
Bear with me gentlemen as I respond to 'Big Bill'...

Ron was mostly correct but not quite...500 gallons only has 400 usable for almost any position of the tank/trailer, so run time at 10 GPM is no more than 40 minutes without make-up water. Most municipal water supplies can give 6 GPM easily, rural 4 GPM. At 6 GPM you would experience a run time of no more than 44.44444 minutes without running dry.

By the way running dry is a bad thing.

Where does the water bypass if there is no float tank? Back to the main tank? Then why have an auto-shutdown system? How can you run a timer shutdown for the engine without electricity? Does the pump decouple from the drive when a bimetallic thermostat senses high temperatures? Does this not add needless complexity and potential for failure? Who certifies the technicians building the machine? Do they meet CETA (voluntary, non regulatory), UL (US voluntary regulatory) or CSA International (Canadian mandatory) standards? If not why?

Who handles warranty on the Intermitting (sic) Duty Cycle? The pump manufacturer won't. Pump and engine warranties are void if any accessory outlet is attached to the oil crankcase, period.

Beckett rates the SDC burner at 300,000 Btu for 12V operation. Regardless of the famous purple wire that every Beckett burner has and smart manufacturers use, that is the limit with 140 PSI fuel pressure and a 1.75 80A nozzle but most importantly the limit of the squirrel cage to supply air. Why do you need a pressure gauge on your burner anyway? Changing this will change the burn characteristics of the coil as negatively as changing out the burner nozzle: green smoke indicatiing incomplete combustion and poor air quality. Bad thing in this era of clean air legislation.

How do you fill those great big fuel tanks buried in the base? How do you monitor fuel level? Should you not fill up beofre every job from DoT approved containers? Check your engine oil level? and so on? Is pressure washing such a high dust profession that you need dual stage air filtration? Small engines rarely fail from intake problems, they almost always fail from lack of oil problems which could be exacerbated by accessory drain methods not supplied by the manufacturer.

On 115V machines, is there enough excess capacity to meet the start demand of the ADC burner and still plug anything in? Does it supply a regulated output to prevent blowing up whatever is attached? If generators were as simple as running them and plugging them in why is there all of that extra hardware on dedicated gensets?

As to performance...25 HP is plenty to do 6.8 @ 3500 using the formula supplied by Cat Pumps of (flow x pressure)/1460=Electric Brake HP (EBHP is a quantifiable, repeatable, World-wide standard). EBHP x 1.5= gasoline engine HP (this is a best 'real world' number based on the fact that there are no standards in small engines on performance).

If the SDC burner is properly set up and there is a large enough charging system and you use an automotive battery then you only need one to start and run the 12V system, unless you are running too many tertiary (look it up) devices like switches and the associated lights.

Now to the trailer and tow vehicle... best guess the IH will weigh close to 1000# dry, add 175# for fuel and oil, add 300# for a 500 gallon tank, 4000# for water, 200' of garden hose at 75#, 200' of HP hose at 125#, hose reels at 100# complete and 225# of soap, wands, accessories et al you should have close to 6,000#. Add in 1,500# for the trailer and you have a Gross Weight of 7,500# MINIMUM. This really limits your choice of tow vehicles.

So as I understand the numbers... 25 HP is not enough for 8-10 GPM at more than 2500 PSI, 300,000 Btu will not raise 8-10 GPM 160 degrees from ambient to give you the mythical 210 outlet, there is not enough run time to be useful with the supply tank (600 gallons would have 480 usable or 48 minutes of cleaning time plus add 800#), you would need to placcard your vehicle if the fuel tanks met DoT rules and were full, you are on your own for warranty and service support and so on.

I guess there is no benefit to getting an IH?

I cover a wide swath of the US and have never run into a dealer of IH pressure washers (from the Atlantic to El Paso to Duluth to Brownsville).

You spends your money you takes your chances.

Sorry gentlemen for the long wind but as you may know I do have a real problem with people that obfuscate and obscure the truth and seek to deceive the public.

Cheers.
 

Mark

Moderator / Sponsor
I just ran one of our washers an hour ago with a new 1509 nozzle, and was getting 3200 PSI at the coil outlet after going through a 220' plus coil.

My charts tell me that is in excess of 8 GPM!

We are running a 25 HP Kohler engine, AR XW8G35 pump, 2000 watt generator, providing power for the 115 volt wayne burner.

(With a 15085 nozzle we get 3500 PSI. at 7.9 gpm)

This unit gets with the program! :)
 

oguard

New Member
Gentlemen,

Thank you for the compliments. :)

As to what is the legal size of tanks the require placcarding it is really dependent on the DoT and the status of the tank.

Does the tank meet DoT specifications? If not the volume is immaterial but on average anything over 11 gallons usually requires a placcard and the associated paperwork.

Cheers.
 

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