Behr strikes again....

[Mike Hughes]

The fence I mentioned in a previous post is giving me some trouble. I did a test patch, and had troube removing the finish.

There are three pictures below. Top picture is what it looks like before I touched it..........it is 334 feet of 3 year old fence, I believe it is pine, Sealed with Behr. Second picture, I sprayed some dilluted sodium hydroxide on it and washed it. Usually this does the trick, but not this time. The third picture, I sprayed the sodium hydroxide stripper on it full strength, washed it, wasn't happy, sprayed it on full strength again, and washed it again! I did not spray a brightner on that section, so I should be lighter then it is. By the way, each picture is a different section of fence, but they all started out looking the same (like the top picture).

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1471628&a=11073115&p=49916642


My problem is, should I really do this job by washing the fence TWICE? Or, does anyone have a suggestion of a chemical that will cut thru this stain a little better. I need to make this job as easy as possible.........and spraying sodium hydroxide on it twice is not a good idea.

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

Mike,

There is an easy way to remove Behr but there is no cheap way to remove it.

We have found that there are two ways to remove Behr. The first way is to use Industrial Strip-X mixed one to one. Spray it on, let it set for 10/15 minutes, scrub with a stiff brush, reapply the strip-x and wait. While your waiting, you have to keep it moist by reapplying a more diluted (3 to one) strip-x. Depending on the number of coats to be removed, this could take quite awhile. By using sodium hydroxide you will save money on the product but it will eat you up in labor cost.

The second way will cost you about 50/60 cents a square foot for the stripper but you'll be able to remove it in one application, saving on your labor. You will also save more money because you don't have to neutralize. You can fight it or you can spray it and forget it.

You are right about washing this fence two or three times, it is not good for it. The same holds true for siding. When you wash this thin of board this many times in a row you are taking a chance of causing warpage or cupping this could cost you a lot of money.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Deck Works]

did you apply pressure? can't see any difference. I would assume all the sealer is off and apply CWF UV CEDAR or REDWOOD to the fence - it holds up great for fences and I have covered over old BEHR with it before. You stripped 2x so you should be fine. Airless Sprayer too!!

John

 

[Jon Fife]

hi mike,

my question is, if this deck was done three years ago w/ behr, than why is there no color of the stain left on the wood?? was this sealed with just a clear water sealer?? in the pics it looks as if the wood is just grey and weathered. i appreciate your responding to my post about 'cleaning with low pressure', and your pics show exactly what i am talking about. i could almost assure you that if you put a cleaner/stripper on that fence and cleaned with 3000 psi, it would look great. that is what it usually takes for me. if you dont mind, please make sure to post again and tell what it finally took to get this fence looking good, and put a pic up if you can. i am interested to know, because you are running into the same problems i am.
Take care Mike,

jon fife
nashville,TN
(615)837-3663

 

[Mike Hughes]

Originally posted by jfife81721
hi mike,

my question is, if this deck was done three years ago w/ behr, than why is there no color of the stain left on the wood??

Because Behr is crap.

 

[Cliff]

Hi Mike

I do not post much but read all.
I belive what Jim said above, Bher is nothing compared to stripping Sikkens. I have removed both sealers with one coat of striper. I do not like to press products but when you need to get it off the stuff works, but it is not cheap. If you would like to talk e-mail direct, If not call Jim and he will get you all set up, Good Luck.

Cliff
ncx@mc.net

 

[Greg Rentschler]

Mike,


As Jim and Cliff stated Industrial Stripex is the only surefire way. One other product I would try is Bix Tough Job (methylene chloride based and its nasty stuff). If it is a acrylic based finish this may help. If it is oil it probably won't do anymore than the sodium hydroxide. We spray the Bix on using and airless and let it work for 10-15 mins.... mist it with water so it will gel slightly and just keep it moist while it is working. Wash and brighten. I would try a test patch on it before buying the Stripex. There's alot more of these to look forward to......


Greg

 

[Deck Works]

StripEX....seems like a lot of work for a fence - considering no one will be walking on it etc. I would be confident that the old sealer is off as you stripped it 2X......do you guys agree?

John

 

[Mike Hughes]

Originally posted by Deck Works
I would be confident that the old sealer is off as you stripped it 2X......do you guys agree?

I somewhat agree. The bottom picture was stripped twice, and it looks like most of the sealer is gone. However, it also looks abused.........fuzzies, etc. I did not use too much pressure........it was just the sodium hydroxide. I would not be happy with a fence that looks like this.........but I think the customer will be happy, and that's all that matters.

I just finished this guys deck today, but I have yet to tackle the fence. I am looking foward to it about as much as I look foward to a root canal. I'll keep you posted. I will not be washing it for at least two weeks yet.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Ok.......time for an update.......


I am thrilled with the way this fence is cleaning up. I started the job on Friday.......got half of it done.

I tried a new product, and it worked really well in one application. I like it so much, I feel the need to share.........it is called HD-80 by Extreme Solutions. Sodium Hydroxide based, with attitude...........it tackled this Behr with no problems. Comes in a powder form, and mixed well even though I used cold water to mix the powder.

Here is a picture...........the picture is of the same section of fence in the top picture at the beginning of this thread. Also, this picture is without neutralizing/brightnening. So, it will be even better looking when totally done.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1471628&a=11073115&p=51173328

I was really nervous about this job..........I even thought about blowing it off and telling him to get someone else. This product made it easy for me. The direct quote from the homeowner was that he was "very impressed" that I found a way to remove it. I can't wait to finish it. It is on a major road in our area, and many many people will see it. Believe me, the yard sign is stayin out there for a while.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[rvagnoni]

Mike,

My only concern with all that stripping you have done is that the wood has been chemically burned. You have strpped it a few times and my experience has been that all that stripping will do this. Thus leaving the wood very soft with lots of fuzzies...wood degration. If the customer is fine with it great. You may find that the Ready seal doesn't hold up so well though. Even with neutralizing.

Good luck with it!

 

[Beth]

Mike,
We know how you feel! Rod was bouncing off the walls and so were the crewmen when they came back the day they first used it. They had to strip a nasty redwood color off.

Once you neutralize it you should be in good shape. There are manufacturers products out there for sealing and staining who also have cleaners in their line with sodium hydroxide, and they expect the chemical to be used on the wood prior to sealing. Wolman is one of them. I don't know about Ready...Might want to call Chris D. We have had no problems, but are not using Ready Seal.

Extreme Solutions product line has improved this year, and they have two new products, both of which have worked really well for us. Now we finally feel like we can bid a strip job and feel confident about the results we'll get. HD-80 is a consistant product.

You're right. It's exciting and too good not to share!

Beth & Rod

 

[Mike Hughes]

Originally posted by rvagnoni
Mike,

. You have strpped it a few times and my experience has been that all that stripping will do this. Thus leaving the wood very soft with lots of fuzzies...wood degration.

Thanks, Rick........but I only stripped the fence once. Looked pretty good.........not too many fuzzies.

 

[reedsterstl]

HD-80

If you like the HD-80 try his e..-38 cleaner. If there is a failed sealer on the wood the 38 takes it off. It's a cleaner and not a stripper. I have used both and the products do work. One thing about the 80, if it's old wood, I don't care how much pressure you don't use, it fuzzies, but lifts the stains off like you wouldn't believe. On the bottle it says use within an hour of mixing, but it took me several hours to strip a deck and it still held up. But got some sanding to do. When I hit it with the brightner from sunbrite, the homeowner thought it was a magic potion. Teh 80- and 38 does the trick. If you need any other stuff, pumps, chems, etc. Russ Cissell can be relied upon. Right Beth???

reedster

 

[Beth]

I'll put it like this. When Rod and I got started, Russ got us hooked on a particular product which was local to him, and worked like a charm. So, we bought it. We tried other things too, and kept going back to it.

Shortly after that he decided to go into the chem business himself. Naturally we tried and worked with his product.

Last year he spent alot of time fine tuning his product. When he told us he was introducing two new products we were a little concerned, since we had not worked with the reformulated product yet. We have to give him credit. He listened to where the weak spots and problem spots were.

The products he has now are very good and can go toe to toe with anything out there. We don't buy exclusively from him, but his products are going to stay in our proverbial tool belt.

Beth & Rod

 

[rvagnoni]

Originally posted by Mike Hughes [/i]



The bottom picture was stripped twice, and it looks like most of the sealer is gone. However, it also looks abused.........fuzzies, etc. I did not use too much pressure........it was just the sodium hydroxide.

Sorry Mike...You stated in your previous posts that you stripped it a couple of times using sodium hydroxide, so I assumed you stripped it twice. Glad it all worked out for you

 

[Mike Hughes]

That was only on a test patch (one fence section) that I stripped twice. The HD-80 ended up doing it in one shot.

 

[rvagnoni]

Glad it worked out for you Mike. I am just courious, since it is sodium hydroxide. How much differant can it be than a product like Deckstrip or New Again? Is it cheaper? May be worth a look at!

 

[Mike Hughes]

I have not yet figured out how much it costs per gallon........since I only used it once so far. I can tell you it is a big advantage to just carry around the powder and mix it as you need it. It even mixes with cold water.

 

[Andy Wheatley]

Rick,

I know this doesn't apply to Mike's job but you stated that excessive stripping causes the wood to become chemically burned, soft w/fuzzies...wood degradation & ready seal would not hold up so well under these circumstances.

What would you use (product); and - what would be your method of dealing with this problem if you ran into it on a job?