Hard starting 13 hp HONDA

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Not resolved yet,

The small engine guy has never heard of a Honda doing this. He seems to think it is the pump. It is time to change pump oil and engine oil on both machines. Will pull the pump and install on a spare Kohler engine I have. That way I can isolate if it is a pump or engine problem.

Will keep you all informed!

 

[Aplus]

BE,
If you pull the pump off the Honda, and then it starts fine, you've found the problem. If it still starts hard with the pump off, then you know it's not your pump.

Don't waste your time bolting it to your Kohler.....especially if you're paying your mechanic to do the work.

 

[Mark]

I thought "the pump is coming off Monday"?

How does the engine start with no pump?

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Tony,
I will pull the pump myself. Since I know how to start it if is real cold I have put it off a little. You a right with the engine starting with the pump off scenario.

Mark,
I have actually been doing jobs sice the problem occoured. Just have to go through an inconvieneant start up!
This weekend looks like a good time to pull it.

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

It is the pump,
Pulled the pump today. The 13 HP Honda started effortlessly.
I now have to figure out what is wrong with this AR direct drive pump. If you heat the pump up for 1o-15 minutes it starts a little
hard butruns ok than. Using 30 weight non det. oil per manufacturers rec.

Any input would be appreciated. Maybe I will just replace it with a belt or gear drive unit.

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Justin,
Actually I have been considering a GP. Have one I putOn my other Honda 14 months ago and it runs flawlessly.

I have not ruled out contacting AR for help on my problem though.
I did some research and some of their pumps run 20-w-15. Will try and email them for guidance.

 

[Mark]

You can call Al at AR North America if you would like to discuss your problems with your AR Pump.
800 893-4235

I am sure he can offer some enlightenment on the problem.

He will want to know the model# of the pump and possibly the serial #.

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Mark,
Thank you! I will make the call Monday. This is a STRANGE PROBLEM.

 

[ron]

My best guess.
The valve seals are just starting to leak.
When you are done for the day some water get's behing the valve and freezes. This causes the pump to be stuck untill you warm it up and the ice turns into water again.
If you reinstall the pump and check the PSI i bet it's low.

 

[Larry L.]

Try adding a pressure release valve to your pump.

 

[Mark]

So much speculation on what the problem is send me the pump and I will tear it down and check it out and let you know our findings.

No charge on labor your only cost would be shipping and parts if you decide to have it repaired.

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Ron,
If the valve seals are leaking wouldnt the oil be turning milky? If so this is not happening. The unit is stored in an enclosed trailer which always stays a least 10 F above freezing. Most of the time the water is blown out of the pump before storeage. The problem also exists when I do blow it out.


Bigboy,
By pressure relief valve do you mean an EZ start valve? If so the pump has one. If not please explain.


Mark,
Thank you for the generous offer. I may take you up on it. I still want to see what AR has to say. I have heard their pumps are usually trouble free.
I might try draining the oil and going with either a 20w15 synthetic or a blend. The manufacturer recomneds non-detergant though.


Thanks to everyone else who has also replied to this post.
I think this will prove to be a real learning experiance by the time the problem is resolved.

 

[doug mckenzie]

when you take it apart we will all know.
i always thought it was or is something bent like a rod
i'm intrested to know what it is.i have a general pump ,it has lasted a long time. i hope talking about it does not jinks it!!!!!
suds mckenzie

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Mark,
Thanks for the phone number of Al Stasny-engineering manager at AR. I got his fax number off the AR site and have sent him a fax with all the details. I want to see what their diagnosis is before moving forward. The pump is only a year old so I think it is under warranty.

Also thinking about taking the Honda to the small engine guy for a physical. lol

I went back and read every past post on this board this evening. It appears some some 11 and 13 hp Honda's have needed exhaust valve adjustments.

Again thanks to you and all the rest for any input!

 

[Mark]

Keep us posted on what you find, and the offer to check your pump out still stands.



P.S. The Raiders are not looking so good, can they come back? Will they??

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Justin,
I change my pump and engine oil every other month. I figure it is just cheap insurance. When eqipment is not performing as it should i get concerned. I want to make sure that I get what I pay for.

I suppose that i could have purchased a new pump but why would I do that if the one I have may be ok?

AR seems to think it is an oil related problem. The reason one machine is affected and not the other may have to do with the diiferant type of bearings use in each pump. So I will change the oil to the ISO 68 they suggest and see what happens.

Never seen the need to spend money unlesss it was necessary!

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Just wanted to pass on the hard starting was pump related.
Switched to Mobil DTE ISO 30 per AR's head engineers recomendation. The engine starts easier now than it ever has!

AR followed up with the problem real well. It is amazing the change in the type of oil made that much differance. Switched the other Honda over also.

A special thanks to Mark for giving me the engineers phone number!

 

[Aplus]

Amazing how simple it was to diagnose, when others want to take everything apart, or diagnosis prematurely.

I'm glad it was a minor fix for you. It's also good to know that AR provided support, as I've got an AR on one of my washers.

I've been using standard 30w non detergent oil in my pumps,and
Mobil 1 synthetic in my engines and have had no problem.

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Tony,
AR did a wonderful job of taking care of the customer. They consulted with me on three differant occasions before recomending Mobil dte 26. The wanted to have all the facts on what the pump and engine were doing.

I was initialy worried how good the oil would work, but was assured it was far superior to what I was using.

Since I bought one gallon in bulk it works out to .58 cents per change.

I may have taken a differant approach to the repair than some. I am now fully confident in the performance of the engine and pump. Nothing is woarse than having unreliable equipment.

How often do you change the Mobil 1 in your motors? Hours?

 

[Aplus]

BE,
I think the AR pump uses 28oz of oil, so that gallon will last you awhile.

I change my pump and engine oil twice per season on my portable cold water units. I would guess that's about 150 hours run time. Some may feel comfortable to change more often, but this schedule has worked for me.

I am extremely confident in the performance of Mobil 1 synthetic, to the point of not worrying too much about the hours between oil changes. It simply does not break down, it maintains viscosity, and stays as slippery as can be.

I have not yet had a mechanical failure on any Honda engine I have owned over the past 8 years.

In fact, I run Mobil 1 in my lawn mower, and every single vehicle I have owned since 1986.