Need Help with Bleach Problem

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kingoharts@fr

New Member
Although I've only used bleach a few times in the past, I've been asked to testify in a court case for a contractor who refused to apply bleach (Household bleach) to a wood sided home, and not be allowed to wash it off. I believe the home was Pine Siding.
I'll give a little history as I know it........Contractor washed home with high pressure water to remove dirt and mildew. He used a small amount of bleach to kill the mildew however all of the black mildew did not come out of the wood. In using the pressure washer, he used enough pressure that the wood "Fuzzed" in places. The home owner wanted the contractor to remove more of the mildew stain with straight bleach however the owner refused to allow the contractor to wash the bleach out with water because of the previous fuzzing of the wood. The contractor refused to apply straight bleach and not be allowed to wash it out. The home owner was not happy and after months of battling back and forth the case has gone to court.
I've been asked to testify as to the damage that bleach can cause to wood if left on and not washed out.
Actually.......I don't know exactly what would happen. I know that the bleach will change the pH factor of the wood, and I believe that it would damage the fibers in the wood, but other than that I don't know what I could testify to. Does anyone out there have any further information on this? I may need to testify that "I've been told by other professionals that ............." Naturally nobody who gives advise would be called to testify.
Any help would be greatly appeciated.
Jerry
 
B

Barry M

New Member
Jerry

I've got that, don't really want to get involved feeling, in my gut but I will say that IMO bleach doesn't cause furring of the wood. HH bleach is about 3% sodium hypochlorite and wood siding is a vertical surface. I've poured 6% bleach on a deck floor to kill mildew and didn't rinse. On a horizontal surface like that the bleach just sat there and soaked in, it never caused any furring at all.

What can cause furring is other harsh chemicals used in deck cleaning when not used correctly, like a strong deck stripper for instance. Also what definitely causes furring of the wood and is a very common occurrence is TOO much water pressure, especially on cedar. If he used more than 800psi give or take it would easily damage the wood fibers causing furring.
 
1

1105

New Member
Its seems obvious that the contractor applied to much pressure. However, I have seen bleach furr natural wood (treated). This process took in excess of two years drip by drip until a baseball size hole formed through the wood. This in no way would apply in this case, its on the contractor. Bleach is a corrosive and over time will eat things. I have used straight bleach on stained wood homes and they were fine. The best thing he could do IMO is ask the homeowner if they would allow another contractor of their chosing to correct the problem, and pay for the redo out of his pocket in return, them drop the case. He could really hurt himself with a high judgement if he could not pay out of pocket. Think of this, How many homes have you cleaned with attached back decks. They all get bleach on them, Do you furr the wood with your bleach...NO. Its the pressure applied.

Maybe this helps a little.
 
K

kingoharts@fr

New Member
Thanks

Thanks for the response guys......I guess I wasn't clear in my post. The contractor admits that the pressure caused the furring of the wood. I was just wondering if the bleach left on the wood would cause any damage.
Thanks to all who responded
 
C

CaroliProWash

New Member
Just simply that locating an expert witness for a legal proceeding by putting a question on a forum is probably not the best route. Too many opinions by contractors. Just because one contractor gets fuzzies for one reason and another does for another doesn't mean it was absolutely the chemical, or absolutely the pressure. The only absolute in wood care is that every piece of wood is different.

With reading the subsequent post of kingoharts....leaving bleach on the wood in some opinions is not appropriate due to the ph level. Again, this is not a good place to find an expert for a court case. Opinions are like......well, you know how the story goes.
 
K

kingoharts@fr

New Member
A little more to the story

Since posting the original post, I've learned a few more details concerning this case.
The attorney is NOT looking for an expert witness, just someone with a little knowledge.
I've scheduled a meeting with the attorney and the contractor to learn more about this. As soon as the meeting takes place I'll post the results, just in case anyone's interested.
Jerry
 
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CaroliProWash

New Member
Might I suggest reading this month's Cleaner Times magazine as there is an article about a contractor that uses bleach on wood.

Celeste
 
K

kingoharts@fr

New Member
Update on court case

Here is an update on that court case if anyone is interested.
After speaking with the attorney and the contractor, I've learned the following.
The homeowner (H/O) didn't want any color added to his pine siding home. The home had had several products put on it over the years (and had never been cleaned). Unknown what the products were, however it had been at least 5 years since anything had been put on the home. Lots of peeling sealer, dirt, mold and mildew on the home.
The home actually needed to be corncob blasted, but the H/O refused to spend the money. H/O didn't want any chemical used on the home due to a high level of ground water and the home was on a well.
The home had years of mold and mildew growing and the wood was completely black in numerous places. The contractor stated that all he could do was to Pressure Wash the wood and remove as much of the black as possible. Contractor then was to spray a 50/50 mixture of Boiled Linseed and Shingle Oil on the home. (That mixture is pretty common in this area)
Once the job was complete, the H/O was not happy with the amount of black that still remained in the wood. (I looked at the home and the amount of black was minimal at best). H/O said nothing about the furring of the wood, which was also minimal.
Since the H/O was not happy, the contractor told the H/O to purchase any product of his choice and the contractor would apply it free of charge.
H/O stated that he would purchase a product, however instead of doing so he filed a complaint with the Registrar of Contractors. ROC issued a repair order for the contractor to attempt to remove some more of the black stain if possible, However the H/O stated that he didn't want the contractor back on his property. H/O then filed a civil suit against the contractor to recover the money which had been paid for the job. Only after the civil suit was filed was the furring of the wood brought up. The H/O subpoenaed a second opinion from another contractor who stated that all he could do was to apply bleach to the wood and use a pressure washer to remove the stain. That seems to be fine with the H/O although he initially refused to allow the first contractor to use any bleach.
It seems as though the H/O wants the contractor to pay for a second contractor to come in a re-do the home using methods that the first contractor had been denied to use.
I know its difficult from your position to understand all that has taken place, however after speaking with all parties involved, I feel that the H/O is wanting his home cleaned and oiled for nothing. The H/O thinks he's found a way to have that done.
It will be interesting to see the final results of this case in court.
 
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CaroliProWash

New Member
Sounds like the H/O had VERY UNREALISTIC expectations, just enough information to make him stupid and just stubborn enough to waste a monumental amount of the court's time. What a cluster! I could probably make a list of woodies who would eat him for lunch! Contractor's mistake was trying to work for that particular H/O.
 
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