Opinions on a Deck Job

[pldoolittle]

I just did my first professional and first non-chlorine deck today. I'm curious to hear you guys commentary on my prices, methods. Don't be afraid to be honest, my goal is good work and resonable rates.

Size: 10' x 10' 6ft off grade.
Railing: 32' on deck. 20ft on stairs.
Stairs: 8-10. Unsure exactly.
Condition: Shady side of house. Greying, mildew, and algae.
Wood: All PT pine.

Process: - Pump spray 3 gal SafeWash (Sodium
Dioxypercarbonate)
- Dwell 10-15 (some dried out)
- Wash at 12-1500psi w/ 40deg tip
- Clean flat work with 12" surface cleaner at 12-1500psi.
>wait 24 hours<
- pump spray with 3gal SunBrite brightener (oxalic
conc. unknown).

Price: $100
Time: 3.5 hours
Drive: n/a. It was my next door neighbor
Chems: 8-10$

Results: Later that day I was very disappointed. Darker spots
were still visible. The customer was out but I was very
worried they would be displeased. The next day I it
did look much better. The customer was pleased. So
was his father who saw it and now wants his done ASAP.
I brightened anyway, and believe it did
nothing at all. However, some untreated places did
have lighter spatter marks from the overspray.


Closing comments:
I took about 1.5 hours to long. A more better tech would have taken abut 2 hrs and charged about $150. I would have been happy with $125 and 2 hours for a net of $50/hr after chems.
By comparison, a reputable firm here (S. Atlanta, Ga) quoted $175 on my two level (3ft and 6ft AGL) 400sq.ft. PT deck.

Frankly, I'm finding that my jobs take too long and I'm afraid that I have set my expectations unreasonably high.

Your comments are greatly appreciated,
Philip

 

[Larry L.]

Philip,I edited the link,read the rules before you sale on this site.

 

[Dale Walkowsk]

...what does this reputable co. include in its bid....400 sq. ft...with or without railing?..materials included?....can't be, even with sepatate materials charge that only about .45 sq.ft.

 

[pldoolittle]

Update: The desk I did this weekend looks great today. I guess the wood needed time to dry out more and the brightener time to work. Also, for those curious I used a 12" surface cleaner at 13-1500 psi on the flats. It worked out great. Just keep it moving. Stop for a second and you've got a circular "lap mark".


Larry: Sorry, no foul intended. It's a habit. After three years in the biz, I tag all my messages with that sig.

Dale: 175 materials inc'l. Cleaned only. No striping, no sealing. Didn't ask about brightening Deck, rails, steps, etc included.

My admitedly very loose definition of reputable in this case: Came by good referral, have been in town for 15+ years, quotes only after looking, and charges premium prices relative to the other 10 PW's in the community yellow pages.

For reference, the same company quoted $145 to do my 1400sq, two level, vinyl on three, brick on one rental property. I did it in two hours. I also did three comps in that neighborhood for $145 (3 hours), $100 (two hours), and $120 (two hours). So unless I'm way below where I should be, they seem normal

FWIW, the "blow and go quote" on my deck was $65. Yes, Sixty Five.

Philip

 

[Aplus]

I couldn't even roll my equipment for the prices you have listed.

Insurance, overhead, supplies........I can't relate to those #s.

Of course, I do this full time for a living. It's different when you're part time, then again you're known as a "low-baller" when prices like that get presented.

 

[pldoolittle]

Perhaps I am a the dreaded "low baller" It's certainly not by design. I'm pretty meticulous, and I frequently leave a job feeling like I have worked my butt off for much less that I should have. I'm am full time as of March 1, although there is alot more selling than washing right now.

A 80% of my pricing (and gross margin) is the result of ignorance. Ignorance of the time required, ignorance of the application rate for my chems, Ignorance of the correct processes for cleaning. The other 20% is fear. PW is my income now, and if nothing is on the calendar for this week low pay trumps no pay every time.

But, that's exactly why I posted my post. To get a better handle of what I'm doing. What would you have charged and why?

Philip

 

[Don.EMS]

$145 for 3 hours of work is not that much. I think any thing under $100 per hour and your cheeting yourself. I would not consider you a lowballer, you just need to learn a little more about priceing. Most of the people calling you a lowballer have forgotten where thay came from, thay were new once to. But now I guess experence, knowlage, and egos gives them the right to look down on others who thay think are not up to there standards. Look at Tonys reply and you'll see what I mean. This is a great place to learn but pay no mind to those to put you down. Keep what your doing and you'll learn. Like someone on this board says, " the more you learn, the more you earn"

 

[Tim Lynch]

The education your are getting now will follow you into the future. When I started I had a $17 dollar ad in-colum in the yellow pages, and I worked with ( don't kill me for this ) an AquaStorm Wagner PW I bought new for 400 bucks. I still have it in the shed for sentamental reasons.

I was doing mobile homes and decks for $15 bucks an hour. Mind you now I just quit a job of 13 years with a major local hardware store. I did lots of work and I still do some of the first customers I started out with... not for the same money! They know I do good work and that I was starting out.

So now my yellow pages are $250 a month and I get about $100 and hour labor if not more.

It's good to start part time! You get your feet wet and get a good education most collage students would kill for.

Increase your wages a bit more as you get a better understanding of things and please never get the feeling your doing to much for the money your making! Thats not good! If you really need to, set yourself hourly. Make the customer think they are getting more than they are paying not the other way around.


Most of all read as much as you can here! the older posts will take you in the right directions and help.

Your fisrt job was a bit low but hey! you mite have a customer for the life of your biz! Take care of them!

And may good luck follow you!

 

[pldoolittle]

Thanks for all the kind words. I'm working very hard to be very good and very profitable. The support I have received from the PW community has been overwhelming.

I still have one big question unanswered. Did I take too long or charge to little on this job? If I should have been finished in an hour and made $100ish, then I have a work skills problem. If 3 hours was normal for this deck, but I should have charged $300 then I have a bidding skills problem. Either way I have a problem I need to resolve.

How long would you guys have spent on a deck like the one I described?

FWIW, Feb 29th I left an IT job at $70k+ bene's to become a FT washer. Netting $75 for three hours work (+ ??? hours selling) is not my idea of good money.

Philip

P.S. I've attached a jpg of the deck after cleaning for reference.

 

[Don.EMS]

I think $100 is a good deal seeing that its your neighbor and that you just cleaned it. I'm thinking 1.5 hrs tops @ ( if its not your neighbor) $175. JUST CLEANING. I think you priced it right,it just took you a little to long to complet the job. Also you got another job out of this one to work on your skills. Good luck

 

[Aplus]

Don,
Please re-read my post. I didn't call anybody a low baller, I said that pricing so low is in a low baller area. I have a lot of guys around here that price jobs so low I can't imagine they make any money at all. There's one charging .65 /sf for wash and seal!

I called him pretending to be a customer, and he told me he doesn't need chems, his 2800psi will remove most anything. When guys like him start causing chaos, it affects those of us trying to make a living. Once a customer has a bad experience, it's hard to get them back.

And don't even try to infer that I've forgotten what it's like to start out.....I remember all to well, and yes, I bid many jobs too low because I didn't know any better.


Phillip,
Unfortunately, everyone starting out is going to suffer some growing pains, because you just can't learn everything you need by just reading these boards.

With time will come experience, and you will gain the speed you need, and the bidding knowledge you seek. If you have family members, consider washing their decks for them to gain experience.

The best way to determine what your price per hour should be, consider figuring backwards. Add up all your overhead expenses, and supplies, then add in the $ per hour you're looking to earn. For a starting point, figure on washing about 100-125 s/f per hour (including rails), if the deck is on ground level. For elevated decks, and multiple stairs, figure a little longer.

So if that deck is 100 s/f, and is elevated with an atypical staircase, 1.5 to 2 hours may be appropriate. For a wash only, $150 would be more in line with what that job is really worth.

But really, the experience you gained was far more valuable than the $$ you earned. Always keep in mind what your time is worth, and price base on that. Some jobs you will never get, no matter what your price is, just keep on plugging away.

 

[pldoolittle]

Don.EMS:
Yes, and practice I did! I'd have been absolutely estatic with 1.5 hours. Pleased with 2hrs.

Is there a secret to washing the rails and pickets? I hit them diagonally so as to only have two passes, but that's two passes down about 75 pickets. And pre-treating with SodPercarb was the same story.

Aplus:
To be fair, I read it the same way as Don. Even if that was what you had meant, there's no offense taken here. I'm fully aware that I'm a newbie, and that my blundering around poses some problems for you guys that have the game figured out. I still over research every job ahead of time and still start with the butterflies in my stomach fearing that I'm about to use the wrong chem or dilution and lay waste a house or it's landscape.

That said: Despite why my present prices may insinuate, I'm certainly not washing for beer money. I left a 70k+ desk job [read: come home dry and clean ] to do this. I enjoy the outdoors and service work, so the relatively low cost of entry made PW a good choice for me. And while I'm prepared for growing pains at startup, I'm also a businessman under it all. If I can't maintain my family's standard of living after taxes (Income and SE) , expenses (yes, I'm well insured), etc. then I will go find something else I can use as a vehicle to do that.

Philip

 

[Don.EMS]

Tony, I must have missunderstood your message, my bad. I should have known, I dont think I've ever seen you bash someone. Cool? Butterflys for about the next 3 months then it'll become second nature. With a little business knowlage, and some hard work you'll cover that $70000 and then some. I think when bidding a little high is better then to low. Enjoy your slow time now because befoe you know it you'll be turning work down, and that sucks.

 

[Aplus]

Sometimes the written word is not read and interpeted the same as the writers' intention.

Philip,

This statement:

I left a 70k+ desk job [read: come home dry and clean ] to do this. I enjoy the outdoors and service work, so the relatively low cost of entry made PW a good choice for me. And while I'm prepared for growing pains at startup, I'm also a businessman under it all. If I can't maintain my family's standard of living after taxes (Income and SE) , expenses (yes, I'm well insured), etc. then I will go find something else I can use as a vehicle to do that.

Sums up exactly how I went full time in April 02. I had 17 years at EDS when I resigned on my own, to do this full time.

I was power washing part/full time for 7 years. Power washing was supposed to be a side job for me. It didn't work out that way, however. As th new business came in, I was working every evening and every weekend for the whole summer. After my customer base got to a certain level, I knew that I could make a serious go at it full time.

I've never looked back. This is what I like to do, at least for a few more years, until I hire people to do all the labor while I focus only on sales and administrative tasks.

I hope that business continues to grow, and feel blessed that it has done as well as it has.

My mission was to offer the best service in my area. I felt the market was underserved. This is year number nine, and every year better than the last. I love the challenges and new things to learn every day. The only thing I don't like about this business, is the 3 month downtime I have every winter. It's great for about 3-4 weeks, then I'm ready to get back, but it's 10 degrees outside and my stuff is winterized and in storage.

I don't know where you're located, so I don't know how many available work months you have. I have to make enough $$ in 9 months to last 12 months.

If you put a plan together, work hard, and be the best, you give yourself a great shot at suceeding in this biz.

 

[HeavyChevy]

Ditto to everything that Tony said for me. I left a 70k desk job (engineering recruitment) to do this full time. Only diffences are, Unlike Tony, I was laid off and had NEVER even pulled the trigger of a pressure washer before I signed a check for 15k for my rig. Talk about jumping in feet first!

Also, I suffered a lot of growing pains like Doolittle last year until I had the fortunate opportunity to go work with Tony (A Plus) on a couple of deck jobs and learned the proper way to restore wood AND how much to charge! Thanks again, Tony.

Doolittle,
one thing that nobody has mentioned in this thread...are you planning on sealing that deck? If not, it will be grey again in no time.

 

[pldoolittle]

Chevy: Sadly, not really. I've tried to pitch letting me stain/seal it but I think he's just going to douse it is thompsons and call it done.

I didn't get laid off, but I did do something that put me in a similar situation. Something, I've never done and know to be rather dumb. I got fed up with my employer and my occupation and gave notice with only a dream and a savings account. I didn't drop 15k, but I did spend about 3k on 4K/4g cold water PW, 27" surf cleaner, extention wand, hoses, chems, etc.

While I don't have a formal business plan, but this is not my first small business so the core plan is second nature and/or documented mentally. I also have an online business that brings in about 15K/yr and the ability to do freelance IT consulting at $75/hr to help bridge the gaps.

If I do have a major flaw to overcome it's that I'm not an aggressive salesman. By that I mean; I'm not confident enough in what I'm selling to stick my neck out, I tend to take a sell and negotiate from a very weak position. Almost timidly as in "Would you be interested in...". Conversely, when I do have that confidence I'm a brahma bull. As in; "Are you nuts?? Only a fool wouldn't have/use XYZ!!!" My friends would probably laugh at me calling myself timid, because most have at one point been taken part or observed me when politics becomes the subject of choice. Anyway, I digress. My point was that I'm not confident about my skills and that puts me at a very weak position when I'm face to face with a customer.

Anyway, I can't thank your guys enough for the advice and kind words. It really is a great help just to know that I'm not alone out there and that others have experienced the same thing you are now and have survived.

Philip

 

[HeavyChevy]

Philip,

Based on what I just read, you'll do just fine in this, or any other business you decide to pursue! Good luck!