Residential Powerwashing Question

[Josh Spoehr]

My 2 cents

I may get blasted for this comment but it is called economics people...

Low demand and low price can generate the same quantity demanded as high demand and high price. Low demand and low price can generate an even greater quantity demanded than that generated by high demand and high price. Example suppose home owners choose pressure washer A over pressure washer B for a certain job. Is demand greater for Pressure washer A than for B? Not necessarily. Pressure washer A may charge a lower price for good service, than pressure washer B, in fact, the demand for pressure washer B may be higher than pressure washer A but pressure washer B charges so much more for good service that more home owners will want to use Pressure washer A.

Ask the big airlines if they have the right business model? I would say no. I understand that some of the competition isn't going to play fare but I keep reading about people making $100 per hour doing wood and I would have to say that by studying this industry for quite a long time that people can't expect to see those type of margins forever, someone will come in and take a bite out of them.

I may be way out of line posting this since I haven't even started washing yet, I hope there is no offense taken.

Josh Spoehr

Legacy Pressure Washing Inc

Jacksonville FL

 

[CaroliProWash]

No blasting is allowed - that would be rude. With that said, ever demographic area is different - you work with what your market will bear, blah, blah, blah. You can start out as a lower priced washer and work yourself around the clock to service the demand for your lower prices - that's why Walmart stays open 24/7 or you can earn the premium price that you are worth and with the quality you are providing, your customers will remain loyal and pay for it. And comparing wood to house washing when it comes to stainless steel service versus platinum service is comparing fruits to vegetables...totally different things.

Celeste

 

[Larry L.]

Scatches head hmmm my John Deere Cost 7200,where it was taking 3 to 4 hours to mow my yard with the cheaper model it now takes 1 to 1 1/2 hours.If I was in the mowing business I could make more money with the bigger model as to the cheaper slower models,same goes for powerwashing.

 

[CaroliProWash]

But Larry, are you going to cut your prices because you can do it faster or are you going to increase your profit margin ? S'what I was talking about - as you better yourself and your equipment, you make more money - why sell yourself short If you can start out with the upper half of the barrel, all the better to pay your bills with !

Celeste

 

[Josh Spoehr]

I understand what you are saying about getting faster and seeing your margins grow, I was directing my comments to the people that seem pissed off because people are taking there business. If you can sell your product on quality and find the person that will pay for "quality" great. But in alot of areas there isn't a huge drop off in the quality of the product that is sold as a knock off. Like when you do your grocery shopping, the store brands are most likely the same as the Brand names next to them, Sometimes they are exactly the same thing, but it doesn't have the fancey packaging, marketing, and shelving costs, so the store brand is cheaper. Or how Lexus is just a toyota with a image of luxury. I was just making a general comment to the people that get pissed at the lowballers. There may be people out there that are doing good work but think that the money that their making is outstanding??? Darn I am getting long winded.............sorry

Josh

Jacksonville, FL

 

[Aplus]

My particular customer base are typically people who will pay for a quality job. I know I'm not the cheapest, not even close, but more times than not I can still get the job even if I'm the high bidder. It just depends on your sales abilities.

Back to the initial question...... It seems to me that you are doing your prudent research now before buying something. I would hope you continue your research on how to wash residential properties.

With that said....by all means get the $999 HD machine. It is not an el-cheapo that some here make it out to be. They have Honda engines and name brand pumps, good unloaders, and everything you need. The $1500 machines have the exact same parts, but are usually belt driven. They also have robust frames. That's it.....period.

When it all boils down, what you are paying the extra $$ for is to buy it from a reputable dealer who can also provide service.

I buy ALL my critical equipment from Mark on this board. Aside from price issues, Mark has provided valuable support every time I have called him for help. He has helped trouble shoot, and has shipped stuff over-nite to me when I needed it. Service is the difference between HD and professional equipment vendors.

The actual parts comprising a cold water machine are all commodities, parts that can be bought anywhere at low prices. If you are willing to sacrifice the service and support, then a machine from a big box store will definitly work for you.

 

[PressurePros]

I may get blasted for this comment but it is called economics people...

Low demand and low price can generate the same quantity demanded as high demand and high price. Low demand and low price can generate an even greater quantity demanded than that generated by high demand and high price. Example suppose home owners choose pressure washer A over pressure washer B for a certain job. Is demand greater for Pressure washer A than for B? Not necessarily. Pressure washer A may charge a lower price for good service, than pressure washer B, in fact, the demand for pressure washer B may be higher than pressure washer A but pressure washer B charges so much more for good service that more home owners will want to use Pressure washer A.

Ask the big airlines if they have the right business model? I would say no. I understand that some of the competition isn't going to play fare but I keep reading about people making $100 per hour doing wood and I would have to say that by studying this industry for quite a long time that people can't expect to see those type of margins forever, someone will come in and take a bite out of them.

I may be way out of line posting this since I haven't even started washing yet, I hope there is no offense taken.

Josh Spoehr

Legacy Pressure Washing Inc

Jacksonville FL

Hi Josh, I'm not sure waht you are saying here as low demand/low price will usually end up as a business shutting it lights out. In your referral to the guys making a hundred an hour...

I average about $130/hr for wood work. That would be great if I did it forty hours a week. Throw in a couple of rainy days, an employee not showing up for work and factor in the winter months and I am not making anywhere near that. Figuring it takes about three years and a ton of trial and error to really start seeing nice profits, someone needs to be in this for the long haul. I have been around just long enough to watch guys with a Sam Walton philosophy go bankrupt. Every season they come and go. Not even around long enough to make the yellow pages these guys run a one line add that says "Powerwashing (333) 555-1212" They undercut me and next year when I am still around, people will call me back and still insist I am too high. I do not chase price shoppers. They want the high end work for dirt cheap and will cancel you in a heartbeat to save ten bucks.

Too many guys in this business get stuck on "$100/hr". I can guarantee you this... take one of the old timers here and a newbie bidding on the same job. Even if their bids are identical, the veteran is probably going to make twice as much per hour. The newbie thinking he will beat the other guy's price will probably throw a number out there well below market value and lose his shirt. Check your demographics and base what you charge on what the rates are. I am on my way today to wash a Ranch house with 1000 sf of brick paver. Upselling a polymer sealer for the house, a driveway rinse and window squeeg'ing the guy didn't blink at $685. Same job down south, maybe the southern guys/girls will help me out here... $250?

Big fancy rigs like the one shown on e-bay are pretty to look at and sure I'd like to have that thing but not at 40 grand to set it up. I agree with Tony, I pay a little more for service. You can get a $1500 machine that will last you for years with proper support and maintenance or you can get a $500 machine that is going to cost you jobs when it goes down and you have to send it to the manufacturer for repair.

 

[CaroliProWash]

Remarking on Ken's point of the "here this year gone next year guys" - this is where I feel like what equipment and chemicals you have can set you apart from the others that go to the box stores - to a degree. I've put it in a post before - when you are completely invested in your business - machines, chems, clothes, cards, every waking moment - then your customer also sees that and knows that even if they're paying more for your service, you're going to be there next year for them, and the year after that - Homeowners don't want to see you using the same stuff they could go to Lowe's and pick up to use themselves for the most part.

I'm rambling - so much of this business is a dog & pony show anyway. Do a good job, charge what you want and be happy - JUST DO A GOOD JOB while you're at it.

Celeste

 

[Cut-Rite2]

Scatches head hmmm my John Deere Cost 7200,where it was taking 3 to 4 hours to mow my yard with the cheaper model it now takes 1 to 1 1/2 hours.If I was in the mowing business I could make more money with the bigger model as to the cheaper slower models,same goes for powerwashing.

Uhhh, well......the full retail on my Hustler was $8099, discounted on "Summer Special" to $5995. When was the last time John Deere discounted anything? As far as quality goes, JD sucks and I would never buy another JD ever again. Mine was the L130 model and I have had mechanical problems that should never have occured. The JD service in my area is terrible. 6 months after I bought the JD from Home Depot, it had a mechanical failure, and then it took 3 trips to the JD service center to get the problem straightened out. After I started using it for mowing other people's lawns, a pulley on the mower deck threw a bearing and chewed off the spindle it was sitting on. The thing was not repairable without replacing the entire mowing deck for $500. Fortunately, I found a machine shop to make a new spindle, and I fixed the thing for $120. That's why I bought the Hustler. I can agree with the people here that are saying to watch out for those items from Lowe's or Home Depot. I have come here for an education, and I can say that so far you all have been really helpful and informative....Thanks

 

[Josh Spoehr]

to pressure pros.

Maybe I should have said Lower price. And please don't get me started on old timers and how great they are. I worked with pretty much all old timers in the aircraft rewire business. I smoke checked old timers everyday, I would have worked them out of a job if they let me...LOL I'm just messin with you. "A word from the wise should be sufficient" that's why I come to this board, I also "take counsel from the years"...I will say that after I get experience I will be moving faster than the Old guys, because my bones don't creek as much as theirs....My kids are aging me faster than normal though, they're like kriptonite, LOL...As far as the prices down here I think that it certainly is not as expensive but in this area with all the development and people moving to Florida, well that also is all economics.

Josh Spoehr

Jacksonville, FL

 

[Josh Spoehr]

Remarking on Ken's point of the "here this year gone next year guys" - this is where I feel like what equipment and chemicals you have can set you apart from the others that go to the box stores - to a degree. I've put it in a post before - when you are completely invested in your business - machines, chems, clothes, cards, every waking moment - then your customer also sees that and knows that even if they're paying more for your service, you're going to be there next year for them, and the year after that - Homeowners don't want to see you using the same stuff they could go to Lowe's and pick up to use themselves for the most part.

Celeste

That is kinda why I made the reference to grocery store food, and the more expensive food. Don't get me wrong when I make these comments, I too will be shooting for quality, I see the advantages of that, but there are some expenses that I will do without, making my margins better(in time hopefully) than others I see on this board with their 45,000 dollar F100000000's. I know you can depreciate the thing, but if I find a truck for 3,000 bucks that will work for 3 or 4 years, and revenue is the same. Who makes out? Or I could lower my prices if needed when business is slow or others are putting the squeeze on.

I may change my mind when I get more involved, who knows. Feel free to disagree, I'm always open to constructive critisisum.

You don't have to tell me my spelling sucks, my wife has that covered.

Joshua Spoehr

 

[CaroliProWash]

I absolutely think you are to be commended for your thought processes in getting into this industry. And you are right to explore all of them - in all likelihood, you will get out there, start up with quality work but moderately lower prices, just as the vast majority of us probably did and then decide one day - hmmm, I'm worth more than this and make the big leap It's a pretty cool day.

Or I could lower my prices if needed when business is slow or others are putting the squeeze on.

Don't do this though - once you discount, you'll be stuck discounting. Decide now where you will allow your breaks or bonuses or whatever you want to call them, ie, public servants (cops, firemen, teachers) all get an automatic discount when we do work for them. We decided on that when we got in the business. Never do a discounted job on the promise of further work - bite ya in the butt everytime because the next guy that comes by and offers to do it cheaper will get it away from you.

Finally, it's not just the business costs that will affect your pricing, etc... We only do this for a living, no other "real" job. We have no choice but to set our prices and stick with them, set the bar on the quality and meet it - after that, it's all customer schmoozing from there. It's in our best interest to keep our customers from calling the lower priced guy period - so that's what we do.

Celeste

 

[PressurePros]

Maybe I should have said Lower price. And please don't get me started on old timers and how great they are. I worked with pretty much all old timers in the aircraft rewire business. I smoke checked old timers everyday, I would have worked them out of a job if they let me...LOL I'm just messin with you. "A word from the wise should be sufficient" that's why I come to this board, I also "take counsel from the years"...I will say that after I get experience I will be moving faster than the Old guys, because my bones don't creek as much as theirs....My kids are aging me faster than normal though, they're like kriptonite, LOL...As far as the prices down here I think that it certainly is not as expensive but in this area with all the development and people moving to Florida, well that also is all economics.

Josh Spoehr

Jacksonville, FL

I think I gave you the wrong impression of what I was trying to say. By "old timer" I mean a guy in the business ten years. He could be 32 years old. My point was, the guy with ten years experience will do the same job as a newbie in half the time, thus doubling his per hour rate. What I was getting at is a guy that starts with the mentality that he will win more bids because he is happy making $50 per hour will soon be out of business because that $50 will net about $30. Take that thirty and multiply it times maybe 15 working hours in the beginning and wow, you have $450 bucks. Hope you didn't want to advertise or get that extension wand this month.

This is not directed at you, Josh. Just trying to open eyes.

 

[Scott Y.]

I am in the same boat, trying to start up a small business with limited funds. I wanted to get the same size washer that you mentioned, until everyone in another forum shot that idea down the way everyone hear has shot yours down. I found a DeVilbiss with a 13hp Honda, 3700psi, and 4 gpm for $999 at Home Depot. It was about $400 more than I wanted to spend, but I figured I did'nt want the headaches the smaller washers would give. Also, I would have a decent 2nd washer when I do upgrade. Scott Y.

 

[Josh Spoehr]

Ken

I can still dunk! Old timer......... LOL........

 

[Larry L.]

hmmm what was the Q'tion,

Celeste more then likely I'd think wow I'm making more than I'm worth and drop my prices,profit wouldn't even be thought of b/c it doesn't take long to getter done.

 

[Josh Spoehr]

I can still dunk! Old timer......... LOL........

Dont really know why I wrote this, had too many barley pops I guess

 

[Larry L.]

Dont really know why I wrote this, had too many barley pops I guess

Years ago I found if you'd close one eye and just stare out the other one you wouldn't do stuff like that,green barley and crosseyed barmaids makes you think you did when really you didn't know why you did too many greenbarleymaid pops...errrrr what was the Q'tion again huh got oldtimers I guess.

 

[Sonlight]

I personally don't see anything wrong with that $999 unit from Lowe's. Like I said I have one and have paid for it 5 times over this summer. I change the oil frequently and take care of it.

I am in window cleaning business and offer PW as a additional service. It is extremely profitable because I already spent the money to obtain the customer so additional services are just icing on the cake.

As far as professionalism goes, I find it is important to just make sure you don't get in over your head. As I said on another thread. I pass on the really difficult or dangerous work. My customers appreciate my honesty and they call me again next year because I was honest with them.

 

[Cut-Rite2]

I personally don't see anything wrong with that $999 unit from Lowe's. Like I said I have one and have paid for it 5 times over this summer. I change the oil frequently and take care of it.

I am in window cleaning business and offer PW as a additional service. It is extremely profitable because I already spent the money to obtain the customer so additional services are just icing on the cake.

As far as professionalism goes, I find it is important to just make sure you don't get in over your head. As I said on another thread. I pass on the really difficult or dangerous work. My customers appreciate my honesty and they call me again next year because I was honest with them.

Thanks for your comments. I probably will end up purchasing that model, as it seems to be a decent entry level pressure washer. I am currently trying to get an insurance quote out of my agent, so as soon as I get that, I will be putting some cash away for that washer. I definitely will stay away from the hazardous stuff in the beginning. Mainly I just want to do driveways, walkways and maybe soffit trim, or maybe the iron stain from sprinklers.