Roof Cleaning

Mark Dadian

New Member
long post copied from web re polyquats et al

Algae and Algaecides
Algae are microscopic single celled forms of plant life that are introduced into the pool water in particular by wind and rain from the atmosphere. Algae contain chlorophyll and are one of the hardiest and most widespread living organisms on this planet, existing in over 30,000 different varieties.

There are three main categories that we need to concern ourselves with, they are:

Green Algae:
-usually floating algae, but sometimes cling to walls. Pool water becomes turbid with a green growth that renders the pool uninviting and dangerous to use by making it difficult to see the bottom of the pool. Before green coloration appears, sides of the pool have a slippery feel, water becomes hazy, and exhibits a high chlorine demand. This is also the fastest growing algae and accounts for most 24 hr algae blooms.

Mustard (Yellow) Algae:
-appears as a yellow powdery deposit on the pool, usually on the shady side. Once established, it is chlorine resistant and can exist in the presence of 3-5 ppm free chlorine. This is also a common algae to grow in aquarium in areas that get little light (like the back glass wall)

Black (Blue-Green) Algae:
-evident by the formation of dime to quarter sized black (or dark blue green) spots, tenaciously adhering to the pools surfaces. Black algae forms a layered structure where the first layer, which may be killed by chlorine, protect under layer from further destruction. Black algae, like mustard algae, is also very chlorine resistant. This is also similar to the black algae that is often found on bathroom shower tiles and in silicone seams near the bath. This form of algae is very slow growing but very hardy, also found commonly in aquariums as dark blotching on the glass sides.

Algae thrive on sunshine, warm water, carbon dioxide, heavy bather load and insufficient chlorine residuals. In the spring as the weather begins to warm and the days get longer, algae spores (seeds) begin to germinate. This is the most common time to see an algae bloom, a rapid growth of algae from all the spores that have been collecting in the water over the winter when the chlorine was kept at a lower level as the pool was not in use. However, it is not uncommon that algae can get a foot hold any time of the year. An algae bloom can turn clear clean water into a green swamp overnight.

When visible algae are present, water can turn a green/brown color, tightly adhering, ugly spots form on the walls and bottom of the pool, odors will develop, pH can climb (as algae consumes carbon dioxide which helps keep pH down), and the pool walls become slippery and hazardous underfoot. Once algae is visible a substantial problem exists. It is important to understand that algae takes in carbon dioxide and gives of oxygen like most other plants. Most bacteria found in swimming pools take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide. This means that each can use the by-products of the other for growth. Obviously, it is desirable to use a chemical program that assures both bacterial and algae control, as the breakdown of one system can cause the failure of the other.



Prevention of algae
To prevent algae from growing in the first place requires only a proper chemical program of regular pool maintenance. This means keeping the proper pH and recommend free chlorine residual for your pool. The best algaecide (algae killer) and algistat (algae inhibitor) is a properly maintained sanitizer level of 1-3 ppm chlorine or 2-5 ppm bromine for a pool and 3-5 ppm chlorine or 3-6 ppm bromine in a spa. However it should be noted that algae is very rare in most spas and hot tubs as the "insulating hard cover" does not allow enough light for the algae to get a foot hold. Algaecides are chemicals added to the pool water to control algae. While algaecides can kill algae at high dosages, most are utilized as algistats, preventing algae formation when chlorine is allowed to become depleted. Consider them as insurance policies against sloppy chlorination or during periods of low chlorination like in the winter when the pool is not in use.


There are three main groups of algaecides:
Quats:- the larges selling and lowest priced of the algaecides. These are most often found in active concentrations of 5-10% Such "quaternary ammonium salts" are surfactants and if added in excess, will cause foaming on the pool surface. Surfactants lower the surface tension of the water and "wet" algae cell walls. This "wetting" splits open the cell wall and kills the algae. Lower concentrations and amounts of quats are used to do a similar job of prevention than polyquats. This algaecide is most often used as the preventative while polyquats are most often used to get rid of existing algae.

Polyquats:-are non foaming algaecides sold in concentrations of 30 to 60%. While more costly than quats, polyquat algaecides are very effective not only on green algae but also with the chlorine resistant mustard and black algae and work well at destroying visible algae, while quats are more frequently used as the algae preventative. Polyquats are differentiated from quats in that they have the word "Poly" at the beginning of the labels chemical names and concentrations.

Copper Salts:-Copper ion (Cu+2) is a very effective algaecide and is used in ponds and lagoons as well as pools to kill and prevent algae formations. The down side to copper usage is stain formation. Over time, soluble copper salts can precipitate from pool water and deposit on pool walls, creating a "blueing" effect. Then, in the presence of chlorine, these salts will turn to cupric oxide that causes grey to black staining of the pool walls. These copper salts are also formed or are similar to salts formed with ionizers and some alternative sanitizers like PristineBlue® which proves to be a better algaecide than sanitizer, they are listed as algaecides and bacteriostats (hinder growth and breeding of bacteria rather than destroying it).

Colloidal Silver:- Silver is similar to copper in may ways, colloidal silver attaches itself to the pool walls and floor, giving these surfaces a residual and continuing algaecidal action. Silver can also cause a black staining to occur on pool walls if not carefully administered. Silver is also a very good bacteriostat that may reduce the need for chlorine. Some ionizers use copper and silver plates to produce both silver and copper ions in the water.



To Treat Algae.
Step 1
To treat algae once they taken hold of a pool check pH and adjust if necessary. Check filtration, filter pressure and backwash if necessary.
Step 2
For green algae you can use one of two methods or implement both. Superchlorinate the water with up to 30 ppm chlorine. Then if you like, or if necessary 24-48 hours later when the chlorine drops to normal levels add a good all purpose algaecide according to package direction. The next day, vacuum the dead algae to waste and backwash the filter if necessary. Use of a good "Floc" can help speed up the settling of dead algae. Backwashing the sand filter twice a day during this period may assist recovery rate dramatically. In case of heavy algae growth it may be necessary to repeat treatment. After algae have been vacuumed, check pH, adjust if necessary, and institute a program of superchlorination and use of a good all purpose algaecide. Make sure chlorine level is maintained at proper level to help prevent reoccurrence.

For Black or mustard algae. Brush the algae spots vigorously with an algae brush (or stiff brush). Shut off the pump, and use chlorine tablets to spot treat the algae spots carefully (this is not a safe practice of vinyl lined pools, but a good ideal on concrete surfaces). Then pour a good all purpose algaecide close to or on algae spots in concentration. Allow dissolved algaecide to contact the algae overnight. Restore water circulation, then brush dead algae and vacuum to waste. In case of heavy algae growth it may be necessary to repeat treatment. After algae have been vacuumed, check pH, adjust if necessary, and institute a program of superchlorination and use of a good all purpose algaecide. Make sure chlorine level is maintained at proper level to help prevent reoccurrence.
 

Kevin7022

New Member
Well now... is all clear to me now...

I guess I'll be more careful of my questions in the future. I can see now that Asphalt Roof cleaning seems to be one of the most debatable topics. I did not intend for a debate nor to learn about pool care however it was very educational and glad the theroy of multiple forms of algae and biological growth was poted. Sorry I got everbody riled up.

Still not sure what to think on what use on a asphalt roof. I just don't see how a diluted caustic is much differnt than a diluted acid. Yes we put em both on our skin and in our clothes and on and on. I guess I'll find me old shingles and run me a test. See which one and how stong it's gotta be before it starts doing all these things everyone say's they do, or not or maybe both.

Wonder if you just neutralize the acid just like some do on the lower sections of the house, or vehicles would that be ok?

If I gather any good results I will reply under this post.

Kevin :confused:
 

Richard R.

New Member
Kevin,
Remember vinegar is a pretty good acidic solution if you just need a little acid kick.

Richard R
 
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ron

New Member
ron p

So MARK do you think polyquats could be the ultimate roof cleaner and/or the best replacement for bleach in housewashing?
If it works and is that safe I think someone would have all ready started selling it.
With your artical, dose this mean it ONLY works with alge in pools or water bourn alge?
 

doug mckenzie

New Member
one more thing guy's the lable and msds list the most dangerous thing first . the thing that makes it hazerdous, so if you get hurt you ,will know what to do. nothing to do with volume,as with other things . suds mckenzie
 

Bill B

New Member
Suds, are you saying that the NA contains contains other stuff besides NaOH? If so, what types of chems?
 

Dan Flynn

PWN Founder
Nothing wrong with a debate. That's how we can learn from each other. I still feel that hydroxide is way stronger, dangerous and not good to use on an asphalt roof with a lesser result.

Great topic and some really good info.

:D
 

doug mckenzie

New Member
i realy like this web site. everyone can learn. when i started 15 yrs ago there was little out there. i found n/a in cleaner times,about 6 0r 7 yrs ago . i liked it so much i became a distributor. because i thought other people would like it too. and i would be helping people at the same time. the stuff works the best way is spray on but we down stream.it does not do anything to ashphalt the way we use it. but clean the snot out of it. you have to p/w. with the sprayer you make the right strength for the jobs and it would come off with less effort. people have tried to copy n/a. it has what you say in it but it has all this other stuff in it that makes it work. now i havent used the things you have, i think. but i have used bleach and good soap alot. i'm just trying to help out and learn
 

Kevin7022

New Member
Yes it is a great topic, and as far as the acid I was refering to was sodium hypoclorite, at least I thought it was.

Kevin
 

Kevin7022

New Member
Yea your right, shows how many times I looked at the MSDS sheet. Just checked Sodium Hypochlorite (as NaOCl) 5% solution has a PH of 9 - 10.

I reson I thought it was an acid is for one of the synonyms is
hypochlorous acid. Just goes to show read the entiire sheet, huh

Kevin
 

Richard R.

New Member
Hey Kevin,
Your not the only one that makes mistakes about chemicals.
I've seen employees of large companies that sell chemicals, not know the difference in some of them.

Besides, when I first started this business a few years ago, I didn't know much about many chemicals either. I'm still in the dark about some of them.

Take Care
Richard R
 

Mark Dadian

New Member
Hey ron p

I'm not sure yet (not having tried it) but tomorrow, I'll be placing a call to two pool companies to see if its even available to experiment with.

Will post the results when I have some.
 

Paul B.

New Member
Just a clarification - Clorox original contains approx 5% Hypochlorite and less than 1% Sodium Hydroxide; Clorox Plus contains approx. 6% Hypochlorite and still less than 1% Sodium Hydroxide.

Damage to asphalt roof shingles are not always obvious or immediate. Damage may not show up as immediately as a cracked window on a car would. Degreasers break down asphalt components and the adhesives that are used on joining the granules to the paper/fiberglass substrates, causing it to dry out, crack, etc.. Harsh chemicals like Sodium Hydroxide can shorten the life of asphalt shingles. For example, a 10 year old 25 year shingle after cleaning may only last another 7-10 years. Degradation may be faster or slower depending on the strength of a degreaser. This may not seem like a big deal to some, but after spending $7-12K on a new roof, I would be pretty upset to find out that you took 5-10 years off its life every time its cleaned. (A 32 square roof with a 30 year asphalt shingle will cost about $7500 to re-roof.)

Another issue is walking on roofs - this causes more shingle damage than the cleaning.

Now for the good? news:
Clemson Extension on Residential Housing provides a guide for cleaning mold & mildew from asphalt shingle roofs:

Mix 3 quarts of 5% (or 1-1/2 quarts 10%) liquid chlorine bleach with 1 quart water. Apply low pressure at a rate of approx. 1 gallon per 50 sqare feet. Do not scrub or rinse.


Happy Roof Cleaning!
 

Mark Dadian

New Member
Polyquat update

"REGAL - Algaecide 60 - Prevents All Types of Algae"

Active ingredient:
Poly [oxyethylene dimethyliminio)ethylene-(dimethyliminio)etheylene dichloride] - 60%
Other ingredients: - 40%

www.regalchemicals.com

I asked a pool supplier about this product and her response left much to experimentation for a conclusive decision.

Her position was that Polyquat is intended to be used in conjunction with pool chlorine, and it (Poly) was to be recycled through the filtering system. It is a swimming pool algaecide and an algae preventative.

Directions for use: It is a violation of Federal Law... blah, blah, blah. Crux of application: "Pools containing heavy growth of algae should be cleaned prior to using this product." Hence, it is not likely to do much to mildew growth on siding, decks or roofs.

Test results: 1) In almost full strength, it did nothing to kill existing mildew on the aforementioned surfaces.

Test results: 2) Full strength, it did nothing to kill existing mildew, and just for kicks I applied it (straight) to artillery fungus. Do you know what happened?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NOTHING.

Not only is it "a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling," it's also a waste of time and money.

If any one has had experiences that differ with my resutls, PLEASE tell us how you did it.
 

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