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"A PWNA conversation"for members and non members
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Doc Reisman
PWNA President
Here are a few of the items that come to mind but are not all the projects we are working on.
Every month our membership has been growing
Our mentor program is expanding
The PWNA website is slowly being reworked along with new changes to the BBS
We have taken “Boot Camps on the road. Phoenix, AZ August 7-8 / Chicago, IL November 6-7
We are adding additional certifications this year.
PWNA has been represented recently at the 6th Annual EPA conference and I will be also attending StormCon at the end of the month.
As of 7/14/04 we launched “Clean Across Americaâ€
We are busy working on the 2005 convention in Columbus, OH.
Thank you for asking.
Every month our membership has been growing
Our mentor program is expanding
The PWNA website is slowly being reworked along with new changes to the BBS
We have taken “Boot Camps on the road. Phoenix, AZ August 7-8 / Chicago, IL November 6-7
We are adding additional certifications this year.
PWNA has been represented recently at the 6th Annual EPA conference and I will be also attending StormCon at the end of the month.
As of 7/14/04 we launched “Clean Across Americaâ€
We are busy working on the 2005 convention in Columbus, OH.
Thank you for asking.
How is the Free Cleaning working?
You say that the membership is growing each month
Where are you at as far as #'s?
How many of those member's are active in the PWNA?
How many joined then quit?
Who is your oldest member?
The new members are all virgins I hear................meaning new to the trade,
what certifications R U adding?
Why do some feel that it is important to have a certificate to preform the work?
One more for `ya
WHat is "stormcon" Is that the sequel to CON-AIR?
You say that the membership is growing each month
Where are you at as far as #'s?
How many of those member's are active in the PWNA?
How many joined then quit?
Who is your oldest member?
The new members are all virgins I hear................meaning new to the trade,
what certifications R U adding?
Why do some feel that it is important to have a certificate to preform the work?
One more for `ya
WHat is "stormcon" Is that the sequel to CON-AIR?
Clean County
New Member
All good questions.
I can answer a couple of them.
You say that the membership is growing each month
Where are you at as far as #'s? We are at about 462 members as of last week. We just had 17 new members added and we had 9 members deactivated.
Why do some feel that it is important to have a certificate to preform the work?Education. Also it looks good to get certified from a reputable place such as the PWNA to add to your business portfolio so you can use it in your advertisements etc. Continuing education whether it be from on the job training and/or classwork(Certification) is always an asset to your business
Who is your oldest member? Some have been members from the beginning aprox 1992. As in age I've met a few in there 60's at the Convention who looked better then I do and I'm in my early 40's
As for the other questions there are others who can give you a much better answer then I can because of there involvement's
I can answer a couple of them.
You say that the membership is growing each month
Where are you at as far as #'s? We are at about 462 members as of last week. We just had 17 new members added and we had 9 members deactivated.
Why do some feel that it is important to have a certificate to preform the work?Education. Also it looks good to get certified from a reputable place such as the PWNA to add to your business portfolio so you can use it in your advertisements etc. Continuing education whether it be from on the job training and/or classwork(Certification) is always an asset to your business
Who is your oldest member? Some have been members from the beginning aprox 1992. As in age I've met a few in there 60's at the Convention who looked better then I do and I'm in my early 40's
As for the other questions there are others who can give you a much better answer then I can because of there involvement's
onecallpowerw
New Member
Reputable ?
What makes PWNA reputable ? Reputable to who ? You ? The suppliers that run PWNA ? The old school guys that know no more than most of us ?
Please explain. These are the questions people want answered.
I will tell ya what, I will design a nice certificate complete with all the bells and whistles, design my own logo, have some stickers made up and offer training at sites to be specified at a later date and I will only charge you $75.00 per year and the training class, I will only charge you $100.
Why does PWNA charge their members for certification ? Should not their membership fee cover training ?
ON, AND ON, AND ON, AND ON........
What makes PWNA reputable ? Reputable to who ? You ? The suppliers that run PWNA ? The old school guys that know no more than most of us ?
Please explain. These are the questions people want answered.
I will tell ya what, I will design a nice certificate complete with all the bells and whistles, design my own logo, have some stickers made up and offer training at sites to be specified at a later date and I will only charge you $75.00 per year and the training class, I will only charge you $100.
Why does PWNA charge their members for certification ? Should not their membership fee cover training ?
ON, AND ON, AND ON, AND ON........
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Clean County
New Member
PWNA is reputable to plenty including other organizations such as the IWCA(Window cleaners org) for example.
As for you designing your own certificate/logos' etc. and having your own classes for $100 dollars go ahead no ones stopping you. There's alot more to that then just trying to slap something together for a low price but if thats your angle by all means go for it.
PWNA charges members for certifications because they cost money to start out with as in instructors, materials etc.
This quote from Mark from Easy Clean nailed it on a different thread :
"I think associations can be a good thing.
IMHO it depends on the individual, and the association,
many have and continue to do fine with, and without
belonging to an association."
As for you designing your own certificate/logos' etc. and having your own classes for $100 dollars go ahead no ones stopping you. There's alot more to that then just trying to slap something together for a low price but if thats your angle by all means go for it.
PWNA charges members for certifications because they cost money to start out with as in instructors, materials etc.
This quote from Mark from Easy Clean nailed it on a different thread :
"I think associations can be a good thing.
IMHO it depends on the individual, and the association,
many have and continue to do fine with, and without
belonging to an association."
"Clean County" do you make your living working fulltime in the Pressure Washing industry? From what I've read on these bulletin boards the answer is no.
You can put any embellishment or slant you want on PWNA, the bottom line is you have a career in another field separate from the one you're pushing on this bbs.
Talk to me when you're in the game fulltime, have just lost a big account, and are worried about next month's rent and your kids tuition.
If I'm wrong, sorry in advance.
You can put any embellishment or slant you want on PWNA, the bottom line is you have a career in another field separate from the one you're pushing on this bbs.
Talk to me when you're in the game fulltime, have just lost a big account, and are worried about next month's rent and your kids tuition.
If I'm wrong, sorry in advance.
PWNA was originally started by a businessman in Texas looking for a way to increase his power washer sales. PWNA has served it's purpose because the founder has left and gone with another group. PWNA doesn't have any power and is made up of mainly newcomers to the business who are being lead around by the nose. It's more like a model airplane club. They offer to certify members for a fee to wash trucks and clean decks and kitchen hoods, by whose authority? In short, PWNA is a joke on its members. Save your money or better yet, invest it in some new hose.
Clean County
New Member
BatLouie,
No your not wrong so no need to apologize. As for Commercial accounts I've lost 2 this year that were guaranteeing me a couple of thousand a month, 12 months a year so I am feeling the pinch as alot are.
My other job I work aprox 120 days a year and my income between the two is very comparable after taxes. These two jobs for me balance themselves out perfectly even though I am getting burnt out at times because I've been going like this for 9 yrs.
Where I live most households have both parents working fulltime just to afford to live here. In my house my wife stays home with the kids and I work the 2 jobs. Some may call it old fashion and some others may call it stupid but this is what my wife and I decided to do and it works for us.
As for the PWNA I'm not putting any slant on it. I enjoy the comraterie(can't spell) I have there with my fellow members and for me, Doc and many others this organization works. At the Convention I met guys like Daryl Mirza whose Hood Company generates Millions on down to some newbies in this field. A learning experience all thru-out.
This is my view/take on the PWNA. So if you were to meet me at a roundtable meeting I wouldn't mind talking to you even if you don't look at me the same as you are because this is your fulltime gig. I am probably more of a rarity with the PWNA since I have another job. Most people I've met there this was there main source of income. Still I volunteer the little time I have in trying to help the PWNA along as alot of others do there also. The goal of the PWNA is to help contractors in our field and considering that the PWNA is a "Not for Profit" Organization this is the part that I can't understand at times why people want to see it fail. The PWNA right now is barely breaking even which is probably part of the reason as to why they have to charge certification classes what they do just to keep themselves afloat. Still there prices are pretty good compared to someother places that charge alot more for certifications in our field.
THere's alot more I can add here but if I do then I may lose some people's attention because of the long read if I haven't already.
No your not wrong so no need to apologize. As for Commercial accounts I've lost 2 this year that were guaranteeing me a couple of thousand a month, 12 months a year so I am feeling the pinch as alot are.
My other job I work aprox 120 days a year and my income between the two is very comparable after taxes. These two jobs for me balance themselves out perfectly even though I am getting burnt out at times because I've been going like this for 9 yrs.
Where I live most households have both parents working fulltime just to afford to live here. In my house my wife stays home with the kids and I work the 2 jobs. Some may call it old fashion and some others may call it stupid but this is what my wife and I decided to do and it works for us.
As for the PWNA I'm not putting any slant on it. I enjoy the comraterie(can't spell) I have there with my fellow members and for me, Doc and many others this organization works. At the Convention I met guys like Daryl Mirza whose Hood Company generates Millions on down to some newbies in this field. A learning experience all thru-out.
This is my view/take on the PWNA. So if you were to meet me at a roundtable meeting I wouldn't mind talking to you even if you don't look at me the same as you are because this is your fulltime gig. I am probably more of a rarity with the PWNA since I have another job. Most people I've met there this was there main source of income. Still I volunteer the little time I have in trying to help the PWNA along as alot of others do there also. The goal of the PWNA is to help contractors in our field and considering that the PWNA is a "Not for Profit" Organization this is the part that I can't understand at times why people want to see it fail. The PWNA right now is barely breaking even which is probably part of the reason as to why they have to charge certification classes what they do just to keep themselves afloat. Still there prices are pretty good compared to someother places that charge alot more for certifications in our field.
THere's alot more I can add here but if I do then I may lose some people's attention because of the long read if I haven't already.
Clean County
New Member
Just a fast response to what Johnny said about the founding member of the PWNA. I believe he is talking about Robert Hindiliter. Robert's involvement with the PWNA has dwindled alot over the years but he was still there at the Dallas Convention for all to talk to. So I would say he never abandoned the PWNA at all.
His son Micheal was also there and he is greatly involved with the PWNA. He was a pleasure to meet and work along side with. These guys are true leaders. They sure have my utmost respect.
His son Micheal was also there and he is greatly involved with the PWNA. He was a pleasure to meet and work along side with. These guys are true leaders. They sure have my utmost respect.
Clean County said:
SO much for the PWNA backing then HUH?
You would think with all that support and backing and having the logo behind your name that you "should" be busier then we are.
You are a part timer...<<(nothing wrong wit dat )...........a PWNA member................. most of us are full time..........NOt a member and are busier then S#*#.
sounds like you know other PWNA folks that "feel the pinch".
Maybe if you guys would concentrate on your own business enstead of building a "club" then you would be a full-timer and maybe kept your accounts!
Now tell us all again WHY WE SHOULD JOIN!!
** Keep in mind John this is all conversation and probing for answers not intended to be a "cut-down".............lets keep it cool!!
onecallpowerw
New Member
Here you go again.....
John,
According to my calculations, if the PWNA has 460 members as of right now, this means at a minimum, the PWNA brings in $90,000 per year. This does not include how many have paid for the certifications @ $250-$350 a pop.
Say you have a wood certification, 10 non-members attend @ $350, this comes to $3500 for just 1 class. Where does the $3500 go ? Ok, lets take for example it pays for the instructors to stay in a plush hotel, the room for training, airfair, all the food they can eat etc..... Basically you guys are just paying for the instructors (which are mostly distributor top heavy) to have a good time. Where does this benefit the PWNA ? Not to mention, I bet the instructors set up their own booth promoting their products.
Another example, take a look at the post on the PWNA talking about charters. One Maryland company (which I will not name) is so hell bent on being the chapter representative for MD/DC/VA, that they are practically begging right in front of everyone. Why is this ? Guess what, they are also a distributor of products.......
John,
According to my calculations, if the PWNA has 460 members as of right now, this means at a minimum, the PWNA brings in $90,000 per year. This does not include how many have paid for the certifications @ $250-$350 a pop.
Say you have a wood certification, 10 non-members attend @ $350, this comes to $3500 for just 1 class. Where does the $3500 go ? Ok, lets take for example it pays for the instructors to stay in a plush hotel, the room for training, airfair, all the food they can eat etc..... Basically you guys are just paying for the instructors (which are mostly distributor top heavy) to have a good time. Where does this benefit the PWNA ? Not to mention, I bet the instructors set up their own booth promoting their products.
Another example, take a look at the post on the PWNA talking about charters. One Maryland company (which I will not name) is so hell bent on being the chapter representative for MD/DC/VA, that they are practically begging right in front of everyone. Why is this ? Guess what, they are also a distributor of products.......
I don't doubt that John is sincere in his belief about PWNA, it's a misguided faith, however. Like I said Robert & Michael have literally stepped out of the main circle. Remember, Robert still sells PW stuff and Michael is his son so they continue to make appearances to offer products. Do you blame them. One Call hit the nail on the head about the company in Maryland. They look as though they want to multi-level sell (ala Amway) their sealers and strippers. They appear power hungry. Mr. Mirza that John mentioned is a former 2 time president and treasurer whose company employs the current president, Doc as a sales rep. Then you have the members who pay the freight and buy the certificates. PWNA is simply a shopping club where the members pay for the privilege of buying from the board of directors, who with the exception of John and a few others, are trying to sell equipment and products. It's like Sam's club without the discounts.
Clean County
New Member
Just call me coolio.... No matter where and how this Conversation ends if it does ever really end I will stay cooler then cool to the point that this picture :burn: will ice up.
Quickly about myself in my county I have the largest yellow page add for my business. My county has over a Million people so I stay pretty busy. I probably generate more work then some powerwashers that do this as there only job. Do I still consider myself partime...I guess so because the only thing I look at is the bottom line which is.....$$$$.
As for the teachers of these certification classes they were pretty much donating there time to do this and on top of that ther pay there own airfare to make these classes. Should they be compensated...Absolutely!! Will they in the future??? Possibly but believe me they won't be making much to do this.
IF you look at the Board of Directors of the PWNA probably in the range of 3/4 are flat out contractors who don't make any money selling any kind of products. As for some of the others they also are volunteering tons of time to make the PWNA work. Believe me they could not do this and they would be better off financially. In the long run if the PWNA can be all that it can be then the members will be better of for it as will the industry as a whole. Just look at the Pool Organization and other organizations that have tons of members.
As for the company In Maryland that is helping with the in inaugural Chapter meetings and is also a distributer I don't see anything wrong with that. People that want to buy from them will and the ones that don't..won't. There efforts are applauded by me and many members for there continueing involvement.
Johhny's take on the PWNA I'm sure is shared by some others.
Hey Johnny were you a member of the PWNA at one time?? If so elaborate some about your experiences.
Quickly about myself in my county I have the largest yellow page add for my business. My county has over a Million people so I stay pretty busy. I probably generate more work then some powerwashers that do this as there only job. Do I still consider myself partime...I guess so because the only thing I look at is the bottom line which is.....$$$$.
As for the teachers of these certification classes they were pretty much donating there time to do this and on top of that ther pay there own airfare to make these classes. Should they be compensated...Absolutely!! Will they in the future??? Possibly but believe me they won't be making much to do this.
IF you look at the Board of Directors of the PWNA probably in the range of 3/4 are flat out contractors who don't make any money selling any kind of products. As for some of the others they also are volunteering tons of time to make the PWNA work. Believe me they could not do this and they would be better off financially. In the long run if the PWNA can be all that it can be then the members will be better of for it as will the industry as a whole. Just look at the Pool Organization and other organizations that have tons of members.
As for the company In Maryland that is helping with the in inaugural Chapter meetings and is also a distributer I don't see anything wrong with that. People that want to buy from them will and the ones that don't..won't. There efforts are applauded by me and many members for there continueing involvement.
Johhny's take on the PWNA I'm sure is shared by some others.
Hey Johnny were you a member of the PWNA at one time?? If so elaborate some about your experiences.
Doc Reisman
PWNA President
johnny said:
Your quote has an interesting perspective that lacks complete accuracy. We are all in business to make money and I would not fault PWNA's founder for that point. Many do not know that Robert and others like him within the PWNA have spent more money supporting the organization then they will ever get back.
Why would anyone want to support his or her industry? PWNA certify by whose authority? Again PWNA is about educating, supporting and representing our membership and the industry. Someone else posted on the PWNA website sometime ago a brilliant analogy relating the PW industry to the auto repair industry. Years ago anyone with a wrench and a hammer could open a mechanic shop. The consumer was getting ripped off and there was no consistency. We (PW's) are in the same place. Do we want the company’s performing poor workmanship to represent the industry through their reputation or would we rather have a place the consumer can look to as a leader?
Some of you may think PWNA is a "Joke†I do not!
There are a lot of outstanding people on the board and within the membership that are working on something greater then themselves. Countless hours spent working to improve benefits and gain recognition for not only PWNA but for those out in the industry, like you, that will rep the benefits without participation.
PWNA is talking to the EPA, fire, and health officials, who else in the industry is doing this? Who is representing the PW? I talked with more then 200 EPA officials this last week educating them about PWNA. In another 2 weeks I will be talking with more then 1000 EPA industry related officials.
I would say not too bad for a “model airplane club.â€
PWNA is being represented by Phil Ackland who is currently educating fire and building officials across the US for those who perform kitchen exhaust cleaning.
Why are we qualified to educate? Because we have the experience and support of the membership. All money that PWNA gets through membership and education goes back to the organization. The instructors are not even compensated for the expenses i.e. flight, food and hotel.
I am pretty annoyed with the cynicism. I probably should expect some criticism but when the facts are not facts and based on perception, a continued ignorance is perpetuated.
I cannot expect others to see what has not been experienced and I highly doubt others with this same thought process have attended a PWNA meeting or convention.
Want to be a part of PWNA, welcome aboard? Want to continue along your own path? This is fine too. I am always available for conversation either on my cell or at home.
Cell 847-922-4921
Home 262-639-1812
Ouch!
Johnny has got Doc upset. "Your quote has an interesting perspective that lacks complete accuracy." There is nothing you said that corrects my quote.
Robert started a club to sell, call it "Robert's Club."
Everyone talks to the EPA, fire depts and health officials. It's part of good business sense. PWNA is just too little, too late on that scene.
The hours that the dedicated few put in are because they love talking about their volunteering plus they have ulterior motives. People volunteer for many organizations, Red Cross, Salvation Army, Feed the Hungry, etc.with no motives other than helping their fellow man.
Phil Ackland has his own agenda. Ikeca has theirs and PWNA another.
I love the qualifications for educating, because members want us to teach! Therefore we should teach. I want to perform surgery and my parents and friends want me to too. Therefore I shall. OKAY.
The PWNA shell was set up as a not for profit corp.
PWNA is simply a shopping club where the members pay for the privilege of buying from the board of directors, who with the exception of John and a few others, are trying to sell equipment and products. It's like Sam's club without the discounts.
Johnny has got Doc upset. "Your quote has an interesting perspective that lacks complete accuracy." There is nothing you said that corrects my quote.
Robert started a club to sell, call it "Robert's Club."
Everyone talks to the EPA, fire depts and health officials. It's part of good business sense. PWNA is just too little, too late on that scene.
The hours that the dedicated few put in are because they love talking about their volunteering plus they have ulterior motives. People volunteer for many organizations, Red Cross, Salvation Army, Feed the Hungry, etc.with no motives other than helping their fellow man.
Phil Ackland has his own agenda. Ikeca has theirs and PWNA another.
I love the qualifications for educating, because members want us to teach! Therefore we should teach. I want to perform surgery and my parents and friends want me to too. Therefore I shall. OKAY.
The PWNA shell was set up as a not for profit corp.
PWNA is simply a shopping club where the members pay for the privilege of buying from the board of directors, who with the exception of John and a few others, are trying to sell equipment and products. It's like Sam's club without the discounts.
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Sorry there John Clean Country - I missed your questions. I almost was a member the year they offered a 1 year membership with the purchase of an rk-21.
I talk to a lot of people who were members, even board members. I even know people who are members. I believe they are bored members.
I talk to a lot of people who were members, even board members. I even know people who are members. I believe they are bored members.
It's sad but true. PWNA can't do much for established businesses. It boils down to being a social club for the members who are sales opportunities for the executives. An individual can join the Masons, KofC, Rotary,etc. and get more business there than in the PWNA. There is a fellow in Illinois who was a member at the start and was a board member, he quit for a few years rejoined for a year saw no changes and quit again. It is what it is. If I was selling widgets to the power wash contractors of America and needed some face time with the buyers I'd try to get in to sell to the members, too. These web sites have pretty much done them in.
Doc Reisman
PWNA President
Again your statements are so far from the mark it is almost amusing. I could spend countless hours in rebuttal trying to convince you (Johnny) and other like you that what you are regurgitating is other people’s thoughts and perceptions.
If you want to take information from past members that are no longer members and incorporate their thoughts and perception into the argument you are more then welcome because obviously this conversation lacks facts and true personal experience.
I am sorry to tell you, there is no huge conspiracy lingering around the next corner. The diabolical executives are in the movies.
Guys this is power washing. I clean grease for a living. I am proud of what I do but it lacks a certain prestige to the general public.
Lets keep this all in perspective.
Below is my numbers. Please call me if anyone wants to debate this topic further or just wants to shoot the breeze, that includes you to Johnny.
Home 262-639-1812
Cell 847-922-4921
Office 847-406-5073
If you want to take information from past members that are no longer members and incorporate their thoughts and perception into the argument you are more then welcome because obviously this conversation lacks facts and true personal experience.
I am sorry to tell you, there is no huge conspiracy lingering around the next corner. The diabolical executives are in the movies.
Guys this is power washing. I clean grease for a living. I am proud of what I do but it lacks a certain prestige to the general public.
Lets keep this all in perspective.
Below is my numbers. Please call me if anyone wants to debate this topic further or just wants to shoot the breeze, that includes you to Johnny.
Home 262-639-1812
Cell 847-922-4921
Office 847-406-5073