Licensing

[Jim Bilyeu]

Dan,

Calif. is kind of wierd. They have allot of different classifications. Some of the wording in their laws are kind of vauge and they can be taken in several different ways. In Calif. you can do some things without a licence but not everything that we do.

For me to go into Calif. just to wash a log home would not be feasable but to go there to strip, seal, chink and maby replace a log or two, it would be. This is when my licence would come into play.

When and if you get hit with a fine of 5-10-15 thousand dollars, it won't do you any good to go into court and say"I didn't know I was suppose to be licensed".

Maby one of the guys living in Calif. can explain this better than I. Maby one of them can tell you what is required in just getting a contractors license there. You can also go on the internet and get more information about lincense requirements not only in Calif. but other states as well.

To me, it just isn't worth taking the chance. When you want to play their game, you have to play by their rules.

Like I said, more and more States are forming a State Contractors Board. Sooner or later you'll have one.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[Jon]

Dan,

Speaking for David he did study and take a contractors license, I am not sure which one but I do know he has one.

He did this on his own, I am sure because he wants to be number ONE but also I would bet it helps him in his sales pitch to say he has that license.


Jim, you say we are considered contractors by the nature of cleaning something, right?

Then what about "window cleaners" "power sweepers" every driver of a trash truck that is not city or county owned, not just the owner but all his employees too?

Then what about the service station mechanic, he is for hire to repair a car or truck, in fact how about all the mechanics that work for dealers?

See what I mean, there is NO END to who should or could be considered a contractor, in fact if you want to really get technical say Dan S. goes and gets a job pumping gas, is he not being hired to perform a service? should he not have a license in order to pump gas?

Hmm, my local tire store, they perfoam a service for me just by checking and filling my tires with air.

Ah the life we live in, Orsen Wells said it well in his book about big brother. It has been here for years and gets worst every day.

Did you know your neighbor who peeks out from behind their curtains could be a spy just waiting to call the Federal COPS because you spit on your lawn.

Ok I know someday it shall come to pass you will need a license to even make a new baby with your wife or girlfriend. I mean after all your performing a service, no wait, she is preforming the service, your just completing the act for her.

Do I hear the police knocking my door down because I failed to obtain permission to hold my wife close as we sleep, oh dear me, I broke that law and now I shall have to suffer for it.

It is mostly a question of how much can they suck out of us in fees.

Perhaps that is why I don't bid government jobs, to much red tape yet many here love working for city, county, state and federal jobs.

Hey dan we can always open up some sort of backyard quickie oil change, dig a hole and pour the oil in it, after all it would be OUR yard and we can do as we please on our property , right?

(As I said before and will say again, yes there needs to be some sort of standards fro PW and all other businesses but I do not see licensing as the way to go for this industry)

 

[Jim Bilyeu]

Dan & Jon,

Hey guys, I don't make the laws.

In Oregon if you contract to clean windows, you are a contractor and must be licensed by the state (again, I didn't make this law). Allot of these laws and requirements are attached (riders) to other laws that are being passed that have nothing to do with contracting or the construction industry.

I recieve a letter every month about new laws being voted on or being debated. If I don't like these laws I go to my state capital and speek out against them. It's like trying to tear down a brick wall by throwing eggs at it.

I just went to www.cslb.ca.gov to look up the requirements on getting a contractors license in Calif. Take a look at it and let me know if you can make any sence out of it.

Jon, take a look at what it says about a Home Service salesperson (must be licensed).


Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

 

[David Saulque]

Two years ago I pick up my California State Contractor License. The state does not require one at this time with machines under 5000psi. However give them time. I felt that it was a good idea to get one. With book-school, cost around $1200-testing and so on.

Most of the reasons come down to fraud enforcement and consumer problems. The state has a 1-800 number so that the consumer can check on the status of the contractor.

Local and state enforcement are fine however when it is layered with the feds it become redundant and abusive

David

 

[Larry L.]

you will need a license to even make a new baby with your wife or girlfriend.,,,,,, she is preforming the service, your just completing the act for her,,,, how much can they suck out of us in fees,,we can always open up some sort of backyard quickie.


hmmmm I heard longtime ago they was even going to start taxing it too.


Isn't License a TAX plus other means of mmmmmmmmmmaking money OFF THEM in fine's,court,lawers heck you name it and a License will cost the ""dig a hole and pour the oil in "" out of our grandchildren,they are the one's that will su'fure our greeds.

 

[Dan S]

I got some friends in high places . maybe b/c we fly together... they did some checking and found this))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))>>> thats right )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No laws in license>>>>>>>>>> you dont need a license to >> paint,concrete,mechanic ( except inspection ) ..... and yep even p/wing.......... as a matter of fact it is exactly like Dave said only if you have over a certain amount of pressure..... and even then chances are you can still get away from it........not sure what it's like in the big city ...... or if you are referring to even washing a car , truck ,, house, .............

I see it like this ... if they want to license me ........ Im going into a cave and shoot my-self in the forehead .... maybe I can make a stand for all fellow p/wers ......... (just kidding ) wife wont let me carry a gun anymore b/c of game warden...... lol...........

 

[Warren Smathers]

Okay guys, let's sum up what I think we can all agree upon......

1. Less government is best government.

2. A tax is a tax is a tax, whether you call it a license fee,
an impact fee, user fee, etc. It is still a tax.

3. None of us like the idea of Big Brother telling us what and
how to do anything.

Having said all that, how do we get to a middle ground between total anarchy and stifling regulation? How do we set and try to enforce training and education standards that will help grow consumer confidence in our industry? You know as well as I do that if we don't do this ourselves, sooner or later there will be an accident or lawsuit and the legislators will do it TO us. Are any of you folks in the building trades? I'm sure that at some point the HVAC guys had a similar debate for example. How did they do it?

By the way, I am learning a tremendous amount from you folks during this discussion. I respect all your opinions and I just hope I haven't miscommunicated my own.

 

[Larry L.]

hope I haven't miscommunicated my own.

hahaha no you haven't but the standards comes in your qtly. as in 'consumer confidence in our industry?' at a afforable price,if licenes are to added the cost will jump out of reach on alot of accounts,meaning p/washer out of business making better way for the truck washes,,more alt to fall on alot of the flatwork b/c of cutting back on times done,insc. goes up" more dirtier houses to look at b/c cost some could not afford."resale goes down for those.....lawers could make more money if not have to have license,alot of small claims goes unclaimed b/c of cost of lawer which makes the poorer poorer which the big brother got enough of,let the free trade along and our customers will be happier.

Like I said lontime ago,if I come after your business I'm coming with my gun loaded,your standard or license can not stop me from getting your business with my qtly.

 

[Aplus]

It seems to me this whole discussion has been blown way out of proportion. If people would just use common sense in everything they do, most of the problems would never occur.

There is nothing I, nor the government can do to stop kids from buying powerwashers from Lowes and doing crappy work. Sure they damage our reputation, but shoddy workmanship or lack of pride in a job occurs in nearly all occupations. Everyone here probably has a story to tell, about the time they got burned. It is unfortunately a part of our capitalistic society.

All I can do is keep doing the best I can, build my own reputation, and continue to use good common sense. It's no different than finding a good auto mechanic, there will always be bad ones, licensed or not. Time will root out the bad ones, and the good ones will prosper.

Ask Jon about his crummy computer service guy, I'll bet that guy won't be around long. There are recognized certifications in the computer industry, but they don't replace pride in workmanship or once again....common sense.

Good intentions to make the service industry better is fine and dandy, just don't expect me to willingly pay out more of my hard earned dollars.

 

[Andy Wheatley]

Warren,

Licensing requirements in HVAC - depends on where you're standing at the time and are not at all consistent with anything.

The information below should be viewed from a stand point of a company that is providing residential and commercial HVAC services, not in terms of being employed by and working for a specific facility and performing the same duties within. (That's different too!)

We'll take Texas for example, You are required to have a state contractor's license to install and/or service heating and a/c equipment. Basically a test, licensing fee, and insurance requirements. The test is mainly code compliance. Now this is smart because there are obviously safety concerns in piping gas, venting, electrical etc...

But get this:

There is absolutely nothing in the Texas State Boiler Law that states a person, firm or corporation has to be certified or licensed to install boilers. Now when I say "boilers" I mean heating boilers, nuclear boilers, power boilers or unfired steam boilers. And I'm not talking little ones either I'm talking about steam to 450 psi, 800 hp, oil, gas or combination. The kind that power hospitals, industrial plants etc...

Where's the logic there?

The only thing that is required of the "Installers" is that they file an installation report certifying compliance with Texas State Boiler Law. It's fortunate that the new install must be inspected by an authorized inspector who has in fact taken a test and been commissioned to perform such duties.

In NY - the county in which I live - Absolutely no licensing requirements for the installation and service of heating and a/c equipment. However, right down the road in a nearby town pop. approx. 2000, within the same county, you must have a heating license to install and service heating equipment...but you don't need one for the installation and service of a/c equipment. I could go on but I'll spare you....

At one time, I'll bet the contractors in that town got together and convinced town officials that testing and licensing should be a requirement to protect the lives of town residents. That just might be the place to start if you were looking for one.

 

[Jon]

Tony is right about the crappy computer guy, when I was in there last the manager came over and said they will not fix it till I sign a release form.

I said very straight face and sternly he has not done his job compeletly and you have been paid, you have two choices, do the job right this time or my lawyer will see you in court, then I said I will be back by 7 tonight and if it is not right I will not take it out and I will sue you.

What he did was build a totally new one again and it works just fine now, however I shall not go back again nor recommand them.

Tony,

I think part of the problem with our line of work is the greedy manufactures, they not only make our industrial PW, but the low cost ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, IF it was not possible for people to buy those machines that would go a long ways to improving our image and help us all improve.

I do agree there should be some sort of schooling, training, education or whatever and I don't mean 15 minutes of this is how you turn it on, this is how you hold the wand that the dealers do.

Warren,

I did not take what you said the first time out of context, I understand where your coming from and I believe all the others do too.

It is strange about boiler installers, they are contractors, plumbers if I am correct or closely related to that field and you say they need no license nor training, pity all you people living in Texas who have a faulty boiler, just hang on for the ride up then hope your landing is smooth!

Dan S, BROWNING NOSING with your buddy ain't gonna help ya so clean your nose up.

Bigboy, you come after me with your gun I will give you a choice of which one I shall be holding to meet ya, and if I aim for your eyes and hit your manhood, oh well

But again this is a free market and here it is more like don't trust anyone else in the business. I do talk with a few, most behave as if they have all the business they can handle but I know for a fact they are out there building up their business.

Jim,

We all know you don't make the laws, your just the ENFORCER, my question is what is your take in it?

Ok all kidding aside lets all face the facts here, in time I think all of us know there will be some sort of licensing for us and the only way I can see stopping it is to band together and have a very strong ORG fight on our side to prevent it OR work it so the testing and other requirements are not so regid, like David said, it sets you back a grand or so and not everyone passes the first time around so you pay again, take the test again and hope to pass.

To quote Tony:

"It seems to me this whole discussion has been blown way out of proportion. If people would just use common sense in everything they do, most of the problems would never occur."

There is truth in that statement and let it begin at the top too.

Like Warren said, "Less government is best government."

 

[Larry L.]

But Luckyboy it doesn't matter where you aim I have a key to your backdoor as to unload your gun,like I said "if" I come after it I'll unlock it with 'consumer confidence in our industry?' .I have control on what part of it but would not like telling the account you'll also have to pay extra for my license b/c its another standard tax to pro'tect ya from the stupid one's dat cann't do qtly. work in this trade.
Yel its another stupid tax ya got to pay for,what would the next thing be,would it be your to young or your to old to have a license.The cities,towns and states already have padlocks on them as in standard rules,all you need is a key to unlock them.
Lowballers hahaha they're some of the biggest companys out there,its not the small guy making a living.They can not competit with our higher price or qtly as the reason they lowball,they look at vol'om over qtly. plus skipping over on alot of standard rules to do so b/c of its cost.

Guess we may just as will license the car and truck wash trade too and the detail trade,school wash,church wash,hey you wanted a license didn't ya,its againest the law "cann't use a wand without a license" dat mean all helpers also.

 

[Dan S]

This also means that if the Church and or School wants to hold a car wash so they can go on a trip ... now (in the future) they cant unless they buy a license from MEEEEEEE
since it isCHRISTMAS eve I will sell you guys a license for half price....$ 250.00 ....... come on any takers.......

 

[Jon]

Bigboy and Dan,

Exactly the point, where do you stop, pick up a hose and soap and a towel and you better have that license.

Volume, crappy work and cheap prices seem to go together in this industry with a couple companies we all have heard of.

 

[Walt Graner]

Sorry to say this but I bet that more than 40% of power washers out there are fly-by-night.

No office other than their home
No insurance, Workers comp or general liability
No employees other than family and friends
No working capital to speak of just hand to mouth operations

And where does most of this tidal wave of ignorance come from?
From the good folks selling equipment on monthly installment plans with fill-in-the-blank SBA loan applications.

I’m afraid that the woes of the power washing industry go further than licensing. Sure wish there was a association……………….

 

[Target P/W]

Hey all.

In Ontario, we have no governing bodies surrounding the use of chemicals and their uses that I know of relating to this industry.
We don't have many people in this trade for that matter, minus truck and car washing in Toronto.
I would like to say that I agree with those of us who practice the environmentally friendly (ier) way of cleaning and would hope that as environmentally conscience people, we can do a heck of a good job while being responsible enough not to need any governing bodies telling us what to use or buy.
Besides, if it requires a license then others will begin to learn the trade and therefore limiting our growth potentials even quicker..................yes?.

Anyways, I'm for the nay.

See ya everyone, Happy Holiday's.

 

[Dan S]

well i guess i fall into that 40% bracket Walt refered to..............

1) my office is my home ( my home is my office )

2) I do have insurance however

3) I have no - employees>>>> (dont want them ) I do great without any......Except for my 3 son's (family it's the only way to go )

4) what is working capital?

5) I have 3 p/wer's one I lease the other two is paid for......

6) having an association .... what good would that do? make some angry .... make some glad.. I say just let us be who we are . let us just work . we (I) dont need anybody to tell me the laws .... I know them........ I have been doing this for almost 8 years and I have been very succesfull without any "program".

7) I reakon IM a fly by nighter............ lol...............

They will want to tell me I cant p/wash with shorts on ... or when it gets hot I cant take off my shirt. "not professional " ......... they would want me to buy where they buy b/c they think that numbers is going to make the price cheeper......... what about the guys out there who sell ? .......... I know im a lil off the subject but non the less ............ I can see where this may go ..........and i hope im not around when either a ass. or the gov. steps in ...... I think it's nothing but horse poop..........

 

[Walt Graner]

Dan

Oh well, like I said the "industry" is what it is.

No hard feeling

 

[ron]

ron p

you need a fishing lic. thats just a tax to preserve the area and fish[also makes sure you know something about the rules]-you need a drives lic. to prove you can drive and have learned the rules[public saftey] a landscaper needs a chem lic. to prove he knows what hes doing so he dosent hurt anyone
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 14 YEAR OLD GIRL AROUND THE CORNER FROM ME THAT JUST HAD A BABY? she has no lic. and no idea what shes doing but the state sends her a check. go figure.

 

[Dan S]

your right Walt no -hard feelings........
I didnt mean to rub ya the wrong way if I did sorry...