New Rate Survey??? (long post)

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

Let me explain i am offering this up to the group, only as a suggestion, and for no personal gain besides the obvious. We can do it, or we can trash it, whatever ya'll feel comfy with.
I know we have all refered to the price guide for rates, from that other place. After looking over it, it seems far outdated, as far as i am concerned.

We have a huge group here, from all around the U.S. and Canada. I think it is time we made a more up-to-date price guide.

My offer is to make up a questionaire, for all forms and aspects of power washing/fleet washing and send it out to those willing to release their prices for the survey. This can be done annonomously by say HOTMAIL so noone knows what each others prices are, including myself. I can compile the figures and issue Dan the new price guide, to put up onto the board for everyone to view and use.

The benefits of this are more than the obvious, since i have always believed their should be a price structure to keep fly-by-nighters and low quality pressure washing companies limited to as few as possible.

I am willing to do this for us, or just submit my prices to someone else, if you feel someone else has more time and is more suited to the task. No prob here. I would just like to see a updated price guide.

Craig

 

[Maz]

I think this would be a great idea. I would be willing to participate. Send me the survey.
Maz, La.

 

[David l Saulque]

Good idea except it is called price fixing and is illegal as it could be. We can't even think about fixing prices. People go to jail for this.

David

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

David,

You got the wrong idea. It will be an average of what everyone pays, it is a measure from low to high, which will give everyone an idea of what everyone else is charging for certain jobs, which will keep us from having to post and getting a few replies which came way to late, you must not have seen the other price guide, and there is no way 302 members of a small bbs can fix prices all over the U.S. I know what your speaking of, and it is not possible from our level. Whatcha think

Craig

 

[David l Saulque]

Your local drug store by law can not call the store down the street and come to a understanding on what price to charge. Buying groups are formed to buy goods and service not to set price or give the appearance to do so.

We might be able to get away with it for some time then out of the blue someone brother is a attorney and off we go.

David

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

Ok David, whatever. What law is it your refering to? Why is it being done by surveys around the world (as well as our competition on the other board)? And exactly who is going to get mad about this? Not doubting you, and staying within the laws is very important to me, although bending them is what makes companies companies and losers losers. Plus, as i said above, we are not setting a price to charge, just listing an average of what we ALL charge from low to high. It is each companies own priority what they want to charge, because i definitely don't fit any of the rate charts i have see since getting in the business. I am sure customers of ours would like to know also what the price ranges are from company to company. Did i ask you to accept my rates as the going rate now, and lets all stick to MY rate, no i didn't and that is what have been illegal. Lets just forget about it, it was only an idea, and as far as i am concerned, i can deal with the low-ballers, i always do, but i would like to know where i could find these laws. Just like the ole song goes, it don't matter to me. Just a thought


Craig

<FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Craig/PowerWashUnlimited on June 04, 2000 ]</font>

 

[David l Saulque]

The EMail I set you was one of many, off the net I use Copermic 2000. We would be near to the problem if we would set any price guides. Granted as we look at it today it is a stetch, but I could just see one of a person going into an account showing him a national price list of service-even a high low list. Now in general terms, if you say the average hour rate is 80-100, that would I think be within the law. We do this now, but with a survey based on services of its members is another thing.

David

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

David,

didn't get your email. Try it again, try sending again.

Thanks,

Craig

 

[Dave Olson]

Hi Craig,

I think any survey that is done should also include a brief description of the work to be done. For example the surveys that I have seen do not include duct work in the kitchen exhaust system pricing. They do not even suggest that ducts are a part of the system! We do many systems that we spend more time cleaning the ducts than the fan and canopy combined!

Dave Olson



------------------
Tidy Powerwash Service, Inc. P.O. Box 781, Catlin, Illinois 61817 Phone 217-427-5557, Fax 217-427-2632 We are a commercial cleaning contractor serving East-Central Illinois and West Central Indiana since 1984. http://www.tps-inc.com

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

Exactly Dave,

A more comprehensive, detailed survey is greatly needed, and since i know absolutely nothing about cleaning hoods and other aspects of our business, the survey will take a little time to construct and fill out by everyone. Been making a very rough draft, and if we decide we want to do it, and if it is legal (David says it isn't, and i personally don't know, but don't see anything wrong with it since it has been done for years) i can put a page up on my website that has the rough draft, and everyone can help me make the final draft with suggestions. Again, thats if we decide we can do this.

 

[DevilDog]

Craig,

Great idea, I will help if you want.

DD

 

[pressurewashing]

I think this would be a great idea. I would be willing to help as much as possible. I have seen the other price guide and you are right, it doesn't help that much and it really does need updating. I would like to know exactly how it would be illegal. What is the statues. We are not Bill Gates, even though I think More power to him. We wouldn't be talking here if it wasn't for him.
Just our thoughts let us know when we can see this survey..also you may want to put in a regional pricing, west coast, northern, eastern and southern...then we know what our region should be, not the adverage for the nation. Let face it some places are a lot more expensive to live than others. It is more expensive in New York than in Mississippi. No pun intended
Also need to seperate between hot and cold prices.
Again just my thoughts but we are with you. Good Luck

Shirley & Jim

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

Here is a news article written by By ANGELA GALLOWAY SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT that David sent me. I can see where he is coming from, but to me, and another source, it doesn't apply to our situation. As long as we are only giving a suggested price, and not a price that we all have to charge, then its only that, a suggested price. Yall can tell me what you think, yall make the call.
(copy)
OLYMPIA -- Washington women stand to gain from yesterday's $34 million national settlement of a price-fixing lawsuit against trendy shoemaker Nine West, the state Attorney General's Office said.

Washington and the rest of the states accused Nine West of squeezing shoe stores into selling their products at minimum prices.

If accepted by U.S. District Court in New York, Washington will receive about $633,000 from the settlement, officials said. The agreement requires the states to pump the money into nonprofit programs benefiting women's health, education, safety and vocational training.

The state will likely set up a committee to decide how to spend the money, which is expected to roll in at the end of the year, said Tina Kondo, a senior assistant attorney general.

According to the lawsuit, Nine West sent retailers a list of shoes that could not be discounted, except at times chosen by the company. The company allegedly told many of the retailers that the idea was to protect the stores from competition.

To put the screws to the stores, the suit alleged, Nine West gave discounts to cooperative retailers and threatened to withhold shoes from uncooperative dealers.

Nine West's alleged price-fixing included shoes under its numerous subdivisions, including Easy Spirit, Enzo and Anglioni.

The law prohibits that kind of pressure to keep competition alive, Kondo said. If the company didn't like the mark-down pricing, it had two choices, he said. "Either cut them off (from the product) or let them cut the price. Nine West was trying to have it both ways."

Nine West did not admit liability or wrongdoing and agreed to:


Notify all retailers that they get to set their own prices.

Refrain for five years from agreements that influence the price of shoes.

Create a fund, including $3.5 million to reimburse the states for attorney fees and investigative costs. The balance will be split between the states according to population.
The company is glad to have the suit settled, said Jacki Nemerov, president of Nine West's parent company, Jones Apparel Group.

 

[AranPressureWashing]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here . . .

There are too many variables.
Statistics compiled back in the mid-90's had determined that the Median Household income for Cary NC was $52,245.00 & per capita income was $22,547.00- however, in Elizabeth City NC it was only $20,056.00 & per capita income was $10,426.00 - In other word - More people in Cary can afford to have their things pressure washed than those in Elizabeth City.

END RESULT: You can get 10 to 12 cents a square foot to clean concrete in Cary - but you would be real luck to get enough work even at 6 cents a square foot in Elizabeth City.

I imagine that you can also rent a 1,500 square foot house in Elizabeth City for about 400 to 500 dollars. Not in Cary - that same house rents for about $1,100.00

You can make an easy list of prices - but who will it serve?

It seems to me that there is no safe way to do this without causing too much conflict of interest.

Think about this: A pressure washing company in a lower pay area comes to your area and starts cutting your price what happens?

Do you lower your price to adjust to them?

...or do you let them have EASY PICKINGS from your potential customer base?

This is the type of knowledge that could be dangerous in the wronge hands.

------------------
Cleaning America - One Job At A Time!
I love My Boss! I Married Her!
E-MAIL: Randy Ferrantino at aran@bellsouth.net

 

[Craig/PowerWashUnlimited]

Good post Randy,

The problem is, if the newbies have no idea what to charge, they will be the one's cutting prices, but not by design. They won't have a clue what to charge, so they will go too low or too high. With a price survey listing the low range, and the high range, and with a little common sense, people in certain area's will know ABOUT what to charge for a certain job. If they feel they need to go higher, go higher, if they feel they need to go lower, go lower. It will serve as a starting point only. You have never been asked to bid on something you never have done, or given a proposal for? This will be a quick reference to what the general prices start and end at, you would make your decision from there on what you actually want to start.

Ok, it's not that important to me, just thought it would be handy to have a up to date guide, but maybe the old one works just fine. Can't keep coming up the stairs when i hear the email go off, i am wore out. LOL

Craig

 

[Dan Flynn]

Hey Craig,

I think you have a great idea. I am sure that there is a legal and honest way to do it right. I feel that if everyone gets involved on the project we could come up with some great ideas.

I also agree that the cost of living is different around the country and offering a structure based on an average will be honest and legal.

Every trade has some sort of pricing structure. There can be a high and low point. Leaving the actual amount charged up to the individual contractor or company. They can choose to price their jobs below, above or in the middle. I feel that if we developed a price guide that suggested an average of lets say. 1 to 5 dollars per sq ft on decks bla bla bla. Then the contractor has the opportunity to choose to stay with in that structure or go below or above it. That seems far from price fixing.

I bet we can investigate what is legal or not. I have seen several pricing situations within and outside of power washing, as well as individuals asking and telling each other what they charge. What is the difference.

Nobody is forcing anyone to stick by it like the bible. It is an average. Every market is different.

We should find out our legal rights and move forward with the project.




------------------
Dan Flynn
Flynn Service Pro
www.powerwash.net
708/715-4206

 

[Scott Stone]

This is not price fixing. Major manufacturers have a suggested retail price on just about everything. It is not illegal because no one is required to follow the pricing guide, and no one will be excluded if they do not follow the pricing guide. We won't even know what prices other people are charging. It is just a hi low guide similar to delc*'s You can bet Robert would not post it on the internet and everywhere else if it was illegal. Like you say every market is different. You will need to be responsive to your own market.

------------------
Any statement that I make about equipment, processes or your hair color is my own personal opinion. I usually base it on personal experience. If you disagree with me you are free to reply on both the BBS and by e-mail. If I am totally off base please explain why on the BBS so that we may all know why
Bus. Phone 480-834-3434
Cell Phone 602-509-9741

 

[JR Wood]

all I did was find out what everyone else was charging in the market I am in and charged accordingly.I live in Pennsylvania but work mostly in New Jersey...WHY? Because I can charge twice as much!!!That price guide on the other board didn't help me one bit.And I'm pretty sure if you come up with an updated one that won't help either.All markets are different.

 

[Jon]

I agree with JR Wood about that other price list being worthless in many cases.

I found that out too, I was using it as my guide and kept loosing jobs to lower bidders.

Since I stopped using it and charge what I feel is a competitive price I have gained a small foothold, I will continue to adjust prices till business increases to the point I am making a fair profit, or what I am happy with. (No I will never truly low ball prices so relax)

Perhaps this "don't charge less then $60 an hour bit" might work in a market that has little or no competition, but for sure not here in Southern California.

Biggest reason being we have the highest ratio of fly by nights and weekend PROs around.

Jon



------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

 

[CavalierPressureCleaning]

Hey Guys,

I think this is a great Idea. I'm also intrested in average times to complete a job. This will help not only in estimating jobs but also tell me if I am working at a competitive pace or should I be looking for ways to adjust my procedure. example: I cleaned a backhoe for a friend spent 4hrs. 5 gals degreaser. close to 1000gals water $100 altough it had not been cleaned in the 5 years he owned it I'm sure there are tricks to this since by the boards the job should have taken 1hr.
So by useing aprice guide I see I have alot of room for improvement in equipment cleaning.

Please forward survey if you
decide to go with it.

Happy to contribute,
Adrian