Problem Downstreaming.

[Jonney_boy]

I have a 13hp BE unit with general pump on it (belt drive, 3500psi @ 4gpm).

The other day I decided to give the downstreamer a try (the machine is approx a year old, i've used the downstreamer a lot on my old 5.5hp machine but not on my 13).

Anyhow, with the soap tip on, I can't seem to get the thing to suck from the bucket. Yes the valve on the downstreamer is fully open and I was not trying to suck a thick fluid..... ... so I started to play with the machine and here's what I found


A) I had 100ft of high pressure hose on the machine witht just a standard highpressure wand. With the soap tip on the gun and the machine running at full speed the pressure guage (connected between the pump's output and the high pressure hose) is reading no pressure. I can put my hand in the stream of water about 1ft from the tip of the gun.... No soap will downstream.

b) removing the tip from the gun I CAN get soap to downstream at about 1/2 throttle on the machine........ this will shoot a solid stream of soapy water about 1.5 ft from the end of the gun.

c) Machine OFF with only tap pressure feeding the machine (50psi approx) the downstreamer works perfectly if I disconnect the highpressure hose and just let it shoot out from the pump. Connect the high pressure hose (even with no tip on the gun) and I can't get it to pull soap

My old 5.5hp honda unit (2000psi @ 3gpm) would downstream like nuts, opening the downstreamer all the way empty a bucket in a few mins (2-3 gallons worth of solution). Normally I would just need to lightly crack open the downstreamer. I had no difficulit pulling solution even when using 50ft of hose and a 30-40ft long extention pole

With the 13hp putting out much more water, i would expect it to downstream even faster (and be able to downstream with more hose attached to the highpressure side). Do you guys think it is a probem with the downstreamer or is it a question of tip selection.... ( are there different soap tip sizes?)

 

[MMWS]

I had a similar problem on my 13hp B & S and i went to a bigger syphon hose. I went from 1/4 to 3/8, maybe that will help.

 

[Jonney_boy]

I'll give that a try but i don't think that is the problem.

With the pump running full speed, I don't feel any sort of suction at the pickup at all (feeling with my finger, pickup tube not connected).


double checking today... I see i'm running a 65 deg #40 tip on the pump.

 

[john orr]

More than likely, there is a problem inside the downstreamer - either the spring or the ball bearing. They can be replaced. I recommend replacing the stainless ball with a ceramic - won't corrode. I carry spares all the time.

 

[Larry L.]

Could be the wrong size downstreamer for your bigger unit with more psi.

 

[Jonney_boy]

I'll take a look at the downstreamer tomorrow and report back the model number.....

 

[Jonney_boy]

Well, the downstreamer does not say anything on it besides "made in italy".... not very usefull...

Anyhow, some more trouble shooting has led me to belive be just not getting enough flow through the guns for the down streamer to work. I currently have 2 guns (one has a bent tip, other is a straight wand, both on identical guns), 2 spools of 50ft of hose and a telescopic wand. Using a #40 soap tip the following happens..

1) using 50ft of hose, the downstreamer will work with both guns (bent and straight wand). will NOT work with telescopic wand.

2) using 100ft of hose, will work with bent tip gun (not as much soap tho). will not work with telescopic wand or straight wand.


Now, I would like to eventually be able to run this pump with 150ft of high pressure hose, (so i dont' have to move the pump when washing a house). It seems that i'm just not getting enough flow out of the guns (marginal case).. do you think running one size larger soap tips will help (say a #50 tip?) or is it a problem with the downstreamer?

 

[Mark]

Before buying another soap tip / nozzle try downstreaming
with same setup but no nozzle. If the soap still wil not siphon
save your money on the nozzle.

Does your injector have a pain t dot on it? This might indicate
orfice size.

 

[Larry L.]

(not getting enough flow through the guns for the down streamer to work.)

I have ran into that problem before "but" it is rare.

(telescopic wand.)

Sometimes the hose made on/in the wand isn't large enough.


They make different size downstreamers,meaning your gpm has alot to do with how a downstreamer works.More than likely the downstreamer you have isn't made to handle 4 gpm.

 

[MMWS]

Bigger tip may help. Have you tried a larger ID syphon hose yet? that will also give you more soap.

 

[Jonney_boy]

Yes I have tried a larger ID syphon hose... not really helping..

No tip in the gun, lots of soap even at 1/2 power on the engine...... didn't try full power tho (didn't want to blow out the o-ring in the coupler).

I tried shopping for the larger soap tip today... no luck so far as it seems everybody only stocks a #40 tip

 

[Larry L.]

Have you taken it apart to see if it had trash in the spring....

 

[Mark]

Check out page # 23 of Easy Clean Systems 2007 Parts & Accessories Catalog.

http://powerwashnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=9931

Item # 1896 may be what you need! [hello]

 

[Jonney_boy]

After some more playing with the machine today.......

There are no markings on the downstreamer .... no paint dot or size on it......... I just know it comes with the machine and is adjustiable..... I also dont' belive that there is anything stuck in the downstreamer.

While I can get soap to work fine with only 50ft of hose and a regular gun it will not pull soap up the extention pole (with no soap tip attached)..... This is leading me to belive that the downstreamer is either the wrong unit or just not up to the task.

Now, my next question would be..... given my machine (13hp honda unit with a general pump, 4gpm @ 3500psi belt drive). Is there a downstreamer that will allow me to pull soap with 150feet of hose attached to the machine AND a telescopic pole? Furthermore, would going to and oversized downstreamer (one designed for a larger machine) help? I am shopping for an adjustiable unit and not fixed rate.

One final question, does anybody know where I could get the required downstreamer locally or online.??? (Mark, do you sell online and ship parts? I don't live anywhere close to your shop unfortunally)

 

[Mark]

An adjustable volume injector might work, yes we sell
locally and online. [hello]

What size hose is on your telescopic wand? 1/4" or 3/8"??

 

[Mike Gwas]

Your gun maybe the problem....

 

[PressurePros]

You have a restriction and are creating back pressure somewhere. Its definitely the extension wand. If you are going to downstream it should be done with the right stuff from gun to nozzles to high flow injector. The hose on an extenion wand is also smaller (I think)

Why do you need an extension wand. I have one on the housewash rig and it comes off the truck maybe once per year. The right nozzle can shoot your chems 40 ft into the air (while downstreaming) and I'm not talking about an X-Jet.

 

[Mark]

LOL! I think Jonney_boy figure it out already.

[hello]

 

[Jonney_boy]

Sorry for the late reply... i've just been really swamped lately and didn't even get a chance to look at the pump yet...


The reason I wanted to downstream using the extention pole was to get the solution up 2 stories.... i've not tried a 0 deg soap tip yet so i'm not sure how far they will shoot....

As for the downstreamer..... I still need to replace that unit with something that would work well with 100+ feet of hose... (eventually I hope to run 150 to 200ft of hose so I won't need to move the pump when washing an average size home). I figured that since i'm replacing the downstreamer anyhow, I might as well try to get one that also work with the extention pole.... incase I ever need it.

I will defently check the hose on the extention pole when I get a chance..... I do have a feeling it is 1/4 tho.

 

[DAFF]

Flow Rates

The downstreamer works on a vortex principal. There is a little spring on a ball bearing inside it. Too much flow for the downstreamer will create back pressure or positive pressure and limited chemicials or no chem will be sucked into the system. What you need is to buy a new downsteamer to match the rate of flow of your machine or to get buy for now lowwer the pressure on the unloader thus reducing the plow through the wand.

keep in mind the longer the hose attached to the gun the more back pressure is created. normally you will be fine with a 100' of hose.

This is one of those growing pains with upgrading your machines.

Good luck and make lots of $$$

DAFF