New Rate Survey??? (long post)

  • Thread starter Craig/PowerWashUnlimited
  • Start date
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Mike@Everclear

Guest
I like the idea of adding the element of time to it. My mechanic has a computer program that tells him how many hours a job should take......very helpful.

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Mike Hughes
Everclear
Souderton, PA
 

Ramon

New Member
I agree Jon. If you wash fleets in Southern California working alone and net 60 per hour you will be underbid by almost 50% by just about anyone. People are willing to do it cheaper. I have three big competitors in my area. They have about 90% of the fleets and about 30 trucks and 60 crews. To run with the big boys you must be super efficient. On average you would have to wash 8 53' trailers an hour to net $60 per hour. However a pricing guide at least gives people somewhere to start.

Ramon
 
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Craig/PowerWashUnlimited

Guest
Ramon,

Well said. You see, i only have to wash 4 53' trailers to net 60 bucks an hour. It is all location, location, location. But then again, i have spent a considerable amount of time learning the aspects of hood cleaning, and when i went out to get some business, there was no way i was going to work for what houston pays to clean hoods. A price guide and some cold calling would have saved me countless hours learning about hoods, if i would have only known that Houston is way below average, i would have never looked hoods way. Just a point, there are so many things to clean, we just have to find out what is lucrative in OUR OWN area, and go with it.

Craig

Will finish the rough draft tonight or tomorrow and hopefully get it on the web page for all to start critiquing soon.
 
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Glenn

Guest
Craig,
Good idea, I can support it. I allready have a price sheet I can send you. As for it being illegal...Nah I don't think so. They would have to prove there was an intent to do wrong doing like forcing everyone to charge the suggested amounts. After all, who would sue? Homeowner, no. Other PW company, no. Then who? You can interpret just about everything to be illegal. Anyway, as for what Ramon said about competing on price, If you try to compete with the big guys on price you will L O S E ! You compete with these guys on quality and service while setting your prices where you can make money, that's why we are in business. I don't care what anyboby else charges, somebody said, "I'd rather sit home and be broke, than be tired and broke!" Think about it.
Craig, Your partner in crime,
Glenn
 

Jon

New Member
Glenn,

I would never sacrifice quality and service no matter what my price was. If a prespective customer said I only want it rinsed off and forget about doing a good job I doubt I could do that. ( would probably tell him to hose it down and save $$)

I pride myself on doing quality work and always have so there is no way for me to cut corners to compete.

Price wise I might match the competition if I know I can still make a profit after all expenses.

I bid a job the other day for $185, it was a bit high but he wanted it done right away, something I would charge more for. I like to schedule my work like all of us do. A do it RIGHT NOW job means they pay more for that, right?

How many of you charge more when you a phone call on Friday and they say they need it done before Monday?

Jon



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Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

<FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Jon on June 06, 2000 ]</font>
 
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David l Saulque

Guest
I spent most of yesterday making some calls to some friends who have been involved in group litigation regarding the FTC and Price Fixing. What this BB is planning if someone files a complaint would be subject to major problems. This would include all parties. Section 5(a)(1) of the Federal Trade Commission Act is icrebly broad It says "Unfair methods of competition in commerce; and unlawful or deceptive acts or practices in commerce are declared unlawful."

The people I talked with said to stay away from any and all discusion regarding price. Some of the motive behind this price guide as some state is to make the "fly by nigts" more in line with the higher price.

I realize my view is not - the only answer, but it is safe. What would any of us gain by knowing the price in Long Island, NY or Sacramento, Ca.

I have been ask if I do not like it don't do it-Well lets "Kill the messenger".
 
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Craig/PowerWashUnlimited

Guest
I do not agree, not in the least. But it is not my board. We will let Dan make the call. Or better yet, lets just forget about the survey, didn't know i was going to make such an uproar and get some SCARED they were going to the big house. Like i said in the original post, it's just an idea.

Craig
 
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David l Saulque

Guest
Should I have not said anything? What is the "Big House" - just as you I have the right to an opinion on this matter.

Just read the regulation-make some calls & explain what it is that you are asking. I don't care one way or the other - but the goverment tends to over-regulate rather than the other way. All it takes is one person who feels that the price issue has been unfair in his market.

Call the FTC and make a iquiry as to the question.

David

<FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by David l Saulque on June 06, 2000 ]</font>
 

Ramon

New Member
Glenn,

I agree. I worked alone for about 9 months. I never made much money doing fleets. Then I hired a good employee. Now it goes real fast. I have competitors doing OTR tractors and 53' trailers for $6 each. I charge almost three times that. Three companies here do 95% of the work. If you want to do fleets your prices need to be in the ballpark of these companies. Luckily they aren't priced too cheap. As for competing on price the guys who charge alot do nothing but stay at home around here. To most companies with fleets washed every two weeks price, service, and quality is crucial in that order. They get big bills every two weeks from guys like me and usually can't tell the difference between a good and bad job. We do nothing but top notch work at very fair prices and continue to grow. The only other big market in So. Cal. is flat work and I don't like doing it that much. I guess my point is this: I am 24 years old and would like to keep growing and adding trucks. I don't want one of these big companies undercutting me by 50%(they do real nice work for the most part) So the only way to stick around is to find a way to give your customers high quality at fair prices. Luckily we have been doing a good job of this so far. I put myself in my customers shoes. If I had a hundred trucks washed every 2 weeks and someone offered me a price 5 dollars lower per unit and did a comparable job I would hire them and cancel the other company. Because he saves me 12,000 per year. That's how I look see it anyways.

Ramon

Ramon
 

Kevin

New Member
I feel like I have to say my 2 cents worth here even though I am still a newbie. I think pricing should be on an individual basis. Figure what the job costs you and what you want to make for your time. Quality is important but price is too. Many businesses have alot of expenses other than getting something cleaned for them.There will always be fly-by-nighters, and their will always be customers who price shop; that will never go away. I dont care what kind of reputation you haev or what kind of job you can do, somebody can cut you out of the picture real quick for less $$$. I guess Im pessimistic on the price guideline because I've been seeing customers worry about the price, not the quality.
 
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pressurewashing

Guest
Craig,
We are new to this site but I still would like to say some more about this price guide.
It is a great idea. Is this guy David the only one not really wanting to do this? Maybe he doesn't want anyone to know what he is charging. All he has to do is not answer the questionaire. Compitition is always good for everyone in most respects. Let face it Sear's isn't going to open a store in a town that is just a wide spot in the road....they check out compitition price to see if they will have a market or if they can make a profit. I saw a post from someone in texas that supports just that. He said he went to the expence and time to learn hood cleaning only later to find out it wasn't profitable. If we have something to go by on different regions and types of cleaning we all can make a better decision on what would best suit our own company in ways of expansion.

We have been doing this long enough to know what to charge...had to learn the hard way. Have been thinking about hood cleaning but don't know if it would be worth the expence and training.

Also, why is the other price list still there if it is illegal? Someone should have already gotten him, right? Let's get this going and be realistic. I believe this will be a benefit to everyone, almost.

We are with you.

Jim & Shirley
bounce2.gif
 

J Prewitt

New Member
I can see both sides of this debate, are we trying to set pricing / or are we trying to find pricing of out associates? Perhaps if someone would brake the US into sections and allow each individuals to post their pricing in their area then it’s not "setting Pricing" it’s simply advertising price.

What ever / I game to submitting any information which would help others and promote our industry.

J Prewitt
 

Jon

New Member
The way I understand Craig is he simply wanted to update the average price for different jobs.

A high and low for as many different things we all clean, nothing wrong with that, it is a guide, not a must charge list.

I don't see the government butting in here over a guide, say it cost 10 bucks to clean a trash can in Calif. 12 in New Mexico, 18 in Florida and 20 in New York.

I see nothing illegal about quoting what we get in our State. Now if we all said don't charge less then a given price that would be price fixing.

David like most of us would not publish what he charges, perhaps he might say he charges a certain price but truly charges more or less, it is not our business to know what he charges.

David, having spoken with you in the past I know your err on the side of caution, and I agree with you that if you wish to opt out we won't ignore you but would understand.

Now Craig, perhaps you should make that call and verify if it is really legal or illegal before this goes on more. If legal then by all means push forward and get it done.

If illegal tell us all and drop the issue. Simple as that, one phone call can get the answer.

I said it earlier and I will repeat it here, that other price guide was a money loser for me till I canned it and started using prices that got people saying YES instead of your to high. Would I use a guide here, yes, but would I stick to the prices, NO, I still would be competitive to my area.

Jon

This debate is sure lively, let's cool it till Craig has an answer about the legal aspects of this guide.

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Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633
 

Barry Laraway

New Member
I see nothing wrong with the exchange of a price structure, it will only give a referance point as to what the market rate will be.
In other parts of the country their will always be higher and lower prices due to the cost of living and potental that the industry will bring.
I dont view this as price fixing, It would not be any set price, just a guide...

just my two cents ...

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Barry/Supreme Power Wash
Hifevor@aol.com
Have a nice day...
 

Ron Musgraves

Administrator
Staff member
Let’s face it, only rookies need a price guide (Craig if you wish to make a price guide I will contribute). Remember in pressure washing these prices can swing from 60.00 to 265.00 or from 4500.00 to 10,000. You’re not going to eliminate this with out education. Fly by nights will still think they can do it for less. Reality check!!!!!!!!!!! How much do you want to make $10.00 $20.00 $50.00 per hour$ Fuel for hot washers $5.00 $7.00 $10.00 dollars per hour? Black & white cost run about 30.00 dollars per hour. Let’s make this easier.

Fuel 8.50 per hour average 8-hour shift 68.00

Truck fuel 21.00 dollars per night 21.00

Labor cost 13.75 per hour 13.75


Black & white costs 102.75 can’t avoid these if you run every night


512.75 per week


26,715 per year

These are not all cost insurance, worker comp, taxes, supplies, maintenance & replacement cost of equipment. I estimate no one makes a penny until after about thirty dollars an hour in cost. I don’t care where you live you can’t run leaner. Sit down and get your calculator out.


Well if you think you need a price guide that’s great. I think we need to talk about reality. Let’s co-op organizes and buying parts wholesale. We should educate new people with what it will take to stay in business. It would be wonderful if there weren’t any people willing to do every thing for nothing. Lets face it this business is not rocket science. This business is cheap to get started. People are looking for vehicles to make money and this one appears easy. Now try to take this business to the second stage. Get some employees a few trucks try to pay everything that’s required, It’s not that easy. As far as prices go, I don’t care what my competitors charge. People will take the deal unless you educate them that your competitor can’t clean the concrete for that price. We really don’t need a price guide; we need an education campaign on how to educate rookies & customers. Price guides might only ingourage a new person to say oh,,,,,,,, that’s what they are charging, well I can charge less. Great,,,,,,,,,, a guideline for my competitors to cut my throat, It can work both ways.


Craig I will support your effort if you keep in mind that we will not stop fly by night operations nor will anyone that’s really legitimate follow it. I wish we could have a price guide for parts or service. Local suppliers robbed me for years. Techniques on saving money insurance deals. Pressure washing club not an organization to make money. One that’s purpose is to better the industry and bring it out of the dark ages. Lets strive to be professional people learning and listening to everyone.

David a disclosure in the guide would solve the problem saying there is no intent that anyone should charge these prices.

Jon remember cal 8.00 new Mex. 10.00 new York 22.00 doesn’t mean someone in all three states might and will charge 3.00 per trash can. I know you realize this. I’m just making a point.


Ron Marshal

602.697.5009
1-888-fleetwash Phoenix
 

Laurie Grathen

<br><b>Premium Member<b><br>
Both this, and the "other" bulletin board were created for the same reason--to SHARE information. I've never thought they were in competition. There are reasons I visit here and reasons I visit the "other."

Though the "other" price guide is outdated, it's still a decent format and the work is done. Why not spend our energy (the little it would take) in simply asking them to update the guide and reissue it for all of us?

Our "little" business is booming, as a I hope all of yours is. Who has time to reinvent the wheel?
 
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Glenn

Guest
Hey Laurie,
Glad to see you here. What Craig is proposing would only take a couple of hours to put together, and he's volunteering to do it. I just can't believe how nieve some people are about things being illegal. Wow, must live their life in fear, huh.
Glenn
 
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Craig/PowerWashUnlimited

Guest
Ok, i concede. I give up. Was Just trying to help.
Uh, Ron, who are you?
David, you win. You may have the time to call around for hours like you said, but i do not. So i will take your word for it, Thank You for your good intentions, i sincerly appreciate it. I think we should get a prize, broke all records on posts, whatcha think?
What do you say Dan, do we get a prize?
lickout.gif




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Craig Knight
Power Wash Unlimited
www.powerwashunlimited.com
 
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David l Saulque

Guest
Look I was just expressing and opinion based on some background. I don't care what is done - I seem to be the only one on the hill. Is this issue so important-to any of us. Our prices are based on many factors and those issues come down to the local econ. I have four two man crews-now how is the average going to help me? - set aside the legal issue.

I service only hood exhaust systems & my rates are based on my market & being in the market for 20 plus years. We have lived without one and done very well-thank you. However I have lost many bids to low price and frankly why would I want a customer such as this. The customer who goes for low price will be gone at the next low price-so what is the gain.

My intent was not to create a fire storm. But to speak another opinion.

David
 

Jon

New Member
David,

You have not started any fire war here, what you did was to speak your mind and that is as it should be.

No one dislikes you because you have a different opinion then they do, remember this, only a few of the hundreds of members have spoken here so you could consider all the silent members as agreeing with your side yet their not willing to be heard on it.

It would be interesting to know if it is considered legal or illegal but from my own gut feeling it is legal since no place is it written we must all follow the prices set in the guide.

That would then make it price fixing which is as we all know illegal.

Like someone here said, the auto manufactures set a sticker price, a seggested retail price but it is up to the dealers to set the bottom line.

Craig, do the darn thing already!

Jon

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Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633
 

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