Poll on PWNA or IKECA membership.

Should the PWNA and IKECA have stricter requirements for considered membership?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 88.2%
  • No

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17
#1
Poll on PWNA or IKECA requirements.

If there were some type of guidlines like proof of performance/knowledge, insurance or licensing required to join PWNA or IKECA would you be more inclined to join?

Do you think it would help the PWNA raise the bar for the industry and gain more recognition and support or not? (Questions are the intellectual property of Henry Bockman Esq. )
 
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#2
Absolutly

PWNA right now holds no ground for me. It is just another organization in my view. It would be funny to see the amount of members left if the organization just required insurance verification for membership. I have said this before and will say it again.....What you get is just a sticker. Anybody thinking that they have any notariety by being a member (at this point) is kidding themselves. Personally, I would stop giving them free advertisement for the newbies by just not talking about PWNA until they satisfy some kind of requirements.

I am sure someone from the PWNA will respond to this post and this will get to be another drawn out post about PWNA. Dont waste your time. Until someone gets smart about how to run an effective organization....I dont want to hear it.
 
#3
First off there is a "e" in absolutely... I never contributed to the pages of banter that went on about this organization. I have been in business for 9 years now and have never heard of the dam thing..... I wash in 5 states and no one has ever contacted me about becoming a member. I would think the powers to be in this outfit would be looking for new members ????? If there are no requirments to join then I do not get it ????? Have pressure washer can join ???? My 75 year old mother has a Home Depot unit, is she qualified ? I have a student of the month sticker on my truck no need for another..... One Call I guess you and I are in the same mind set about this situation..... Oh by the way I am sure it was a typo !!!!!
 
#6
Hi gordon,

I didn't want to dissapoint you... So let me ask you this, what makes an effective organization and if they did have requirements for membership, how would you feel about it then?

What does it take for an organization or a bbs for that matter to have enough notariety for it to matter? I agree that it needs to get it's name out to our clients to be more valuable to it's members. At the same time though, all the bbs's online are in the same situation. No one knows about them unless they look for them so were all in the same ballgame, PWNA member or not.
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
#7
At the same time though, all the bbs's online are in the same situation. No one knows about them unless they look for them so were all in the same ballgame, PWNA member or not.
__________________

Thats like comparing apples to oranges in the same basket while wanting all to be pineapples.I don't know to many people running the net looking for a organization to join or checking to see ifen any trade has one.Do tho know alot of people looking for bbs's on the net.......You know and I know how to get the word out if we want something.
 
#8
Misguided

Henry,

To answer you question......I would not support the PWNA in no circumstance. They have missed the bus. Too many years have gone by and the PWNA has done nothing to certify themselves in a market that has grown tri-fold. I would rather see another group start a Pressure Washing Association. With this they should require at the minimum the following:

1. Proof of Insurance on a yearly basis. (This could be done at time of renewal) Insurance should have a minimum of at least $300,000 General Liability.

2. Written certification based on the type of cleaning that will be done. ie. wood, concrete, kitchen hoods etc...... This would only have to be done once per individual per company. After the written certification they should have it set up for the individual to demostrate their ability. How many times have we seen members of the PWNA wash wood or concrete etc.... at the conventions. Why can this not be done at time of certification ?

3. An annual check of the BBB, state, local and federal authorities of any discrepencies or violations.

4. If a company is required by state to be licenced then this should also be proven that they are current. LEG WORK that PWNA has not been willing to provide.

Just the above mentioned would be a start. Then the organization would be able to lobby for improved standards for our type of business.

Currently, PWNA allows anyone to join....Once they join for 1 year they have the privlages of using all PWNA logo's, stickers etc....... Hell even if they do not sign up for another year they still use the logos. What's the point. PWNA should at a minimum have the individual or company sign a clause against using their logos if not a current member. Then they could go after the individual company for malicious use of their logo.

In order to have an association that stands for POWER WASHERS OF NORTH AMERICA, they should not have anyone the sells products on their board. This is a no no. From the outside this looks like a conflict of interest which if you read all of the post over the years you will find this mentioned more than once. Why do you think the main guys that started PWNA were all distributors ? It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Last and not least, the organization has to have somebody beating on doors. I am talking the Federal Government. They need to take the monies and hire a lobby group that will do this for them. The Federal Government when confronted with the right people will turn tricks for them. It is not out of the question for the Federal Government and their envolvement in the environment to give out Federal Grants to get the word out. Hell just in the last two months we have found out that there are columnist gettin paid to promote George Bush and his directive. Dont you think, the Government would give a reputable organization monies for tv spots ? Come on, you know they would.

Enough said. I hope you give me feedback on this as well as I invite any PWNA member also.
 
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#10
Hi Larry, I should have stated that differently, I was talking about just the bbs's online. It's very difficult to promote them to the public (clients) unless your a power washer that's activly looking for a bbs.



onecallpowerw said:
Henry,

To answer you question......I would not support the PWNA in no circumstance. They have missed the bus. Too many years have gone by and the PWNA has done nothing to certify themselves in a market that has grown tri-fold. I would rather see another group start a Pressure Washing Association. With this they should require at the minimum the following:

I'm not sure how they have missed the bus since they are pretty involved in EPA stuff and some other political things (I don't know much about that though) BUT, wouldn't working with a new org "IF" one starts up put things at more of a disadvantage? They would have to build up a membership, structure, directors, policies and all kinds of other stuff before they could do anything. That could take at least a year or two. Why not just try to help fix any problems the PWNA has? It would be a lot more time effective.

1. Proof of Insurance on a yearly basis. (This could be done at time of renewal) Insurance should have a minimum of at least $300,000 General Liability.

2. Written certification based on the type of cleaning that will be done. ie. wood, concrete, kitchen hoods etc...... This would only have to be done once per individual Every person in each company? That's pretty expensive. per company. After the written certification they should have it set up for the individual to demostrate their ability. How many times have we seen members of the PWNA wash wood or concrete etc.... at the conventions. Why can this not be done at time of certification ? I think everything you have here is easily workable if they decide to do this but the demonstrating ability part would be almost impossible to manage. There's just too many people to do it with and where would it be done on a pallet for wood certification? Pallets aren't the same as a deck. How many kitchen exaust systems would we have to clean for free to test for that and who's going to want their kitchen closed down to allow us to do it? I think explaining the procedure and a test for it would be good enough. That's what they do now really with their certification courses.
3. An annual check of the BBB, state, local and federal authorities of any discrepencies or violations.

4. If a company is required by state to be licenced then this should also be proven that they are current. LEG WORK that PWNA has not been willing to provide.

Just the above mentioned would be a start. Then the organization would be able to lobby for improved standards for our type of business.

Currently, PWNA allows anyone to join....Once they join for 1 year they have the privlages of using all PWNA logo's, stickers etc....... Hell even if they do not sign up for another year they still use the logos. What's the point. PWNA should at a minimum have the individual or company sign a clause against using their logos if not a current member. Then they could go after the individual company for malicious use of their logo.

In order to have an association that stands for POWER WASHERS OF NORTH AMERICA, they should not have anyone the sells products on their board. This is a no no. From the outside this looks like a conflict of interest which if you read all of the post over the years you will find this mentioned more than once. Why do you think the main guys that started PWNA were all distributors ? It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
It was started by some distributers this is true but, at the same time the members are the ones that vote for the board of directors..so it's up to them to vote for who they want.

Last and not least, the organization has to have somebody beating on doors. I am talking the Federal Government. They need to take the monies and hire a lobby group that will do this for them. The Federal Government when confronted with the right people will turn tricks for them. It is not out of the question for the Federal Government and their envolvement in the environment to give out Federal Grants to get the word out. Hell just in the last two months we have found out that there are columnist gettin paid to promote George Bush and his directive. Dont you think, the Government would give a reputable organization monies for tv spots ? Come on, you know they would.
The government has been pretty busy spending all our money in other ways..lol I did mention the PWNA is involved in some EPA stuff and other programs but I don't know enough about it to comment knowladgably. Basically I agree with most of your suggestions though and I've also run polls on quite a bit of them on the PWNA site in the past to get the members input. I just thought it was also important to get input from others that aren't in PWNA and still have strong opinions about it. Any information and suggestions you have can help make the org stronger. Even if you don't want to join to try to help fix your concerns I still think it's great that your willing to put them out there constructivly with out drop kicking my comments. I appreciate that, and I think you have a lot of good ideas and suggestions.

Enough said. I hope you give me feedback on this as well as I invite any PWNA member also.

Does anyone else have any suggestions or input on this stuff? I'd love to hear it.
 
#12
strict

PWNA has created stricter guidelines for the kitchen exhaust cleaner. The Certified KEC must have proof of insurance, business license, and verifiable OJT before a true certificate will be issued.

As far as requiring PW companies to be insured, licensed, etc. The Executive board has discussed this and agrees. We have not taken this topic to the BOD as of yet but shall be discussed in March.

This year the PWNA has been placed on the NFPA 96 Committee and the UL 1978 Committee.

For KEC I have also talked with a large group or risk management / insurance companies to educate them about restaurants and requirements.

We have attended EPA functions, spoke at EPA conventions and had EPA people at our PWNA sponsored round tables.

All this done this past year by a group of VOLENTEERS of NO PAY and there is soo much more I have not even covered. I am very tired and cranky so I hope this is taken as though we are in a group together and you can hear my voice in the softest tone.

As I read posts about what PWNA is not doing, how we are failing, and how many refuse to become members it occurs to me that I maybe annoyed but I think many just don't understand. If you would only take a moment to get the words straight from a BOD or my mouth.

Every year I hear and read negative things about PWNA and despite all the banter PWNA continues to improve and do new and exciting projects as those few stand back and say not only it can not be done but refuse to be a part of it.

I am sorry to those who feel PWNA has ignored you and not invited you to join. I invite any and all constructive conversations.

I love this industry and have given countless hours of my time with no other intention then to see PW succeed as those before me has. I am so very proud to have served with such a wonderful group of BOD and members. I am humbled every day with the title President of PWNA.

My two-year term is coming to its end. Although I would like to say things are slowing down the convention is only a few months away and will be taking most of the BOD’s time and mine.

Please do not bother posting a response for me within this format to read. I am traveling and have limited time to log onto BBS's. If you are truly interested in what I have to say I would recommend a phone call.

Thanks for allowing me this post and I appreciate this BBS and the years it has supported PWNA.

847-922-4921 cell

847-406-5073 office

262-639-1812 home
 
#13
Just goes to show ya.....

Doc's first post on this board since (JULY 2004). With only three or four boards for the entire industry...you think you could make it around here more often. I am not trying to have a back and forth battle here but dont you think that you have dropped the ball on that one.

Lets all face it...PWNA does not like this board because people that come here speak their mind and the PWNA has always received slack from people on this board. Only when something is said (bad) about the PWNA does someone with the stature of Doc (PRESIDENT OF PWNA) comes forward.

Just goes to show ya.....
 
#14
Hey Gordon,

It goes to show ya that he cares...

I'd emailed Doc to tell him that you guys had a lot of great ideas in this thread and that someone had questions that I couldnt answer so I asked him if he could. I don't think anything anyone has said in this thread is bad, actually I think it was well thought out and stated.

Your right, a lot of people from PWNA don't post here often because they don't want to cause controversy or negative discussions. I don't see anything negative in Docs comments in fact he encouraged anyone to call if they had questions after explaining some of the orgs involvement that you had asked about.

You sounded like your upset that he doesn't post here very often and your right he doesn't, he has an organization to run and that should be his primary focus, advancing the org and carrying out it's purpose for it's members.

Even if you personally don't want to be a member of the PWNA, that's cool but, we should all have some interest in an org that wants to make the industry better for us. We should also want it to be as effective as it can.

So what else can the PWNA or any organization do to help the industry and it's members?
 
#15
A few of my thoughts...

$99/year for one-man operations.

While Cleaner Times is a great mag, it is not intended for pw contractors. PWNA should publish their own. There are plenty of mfgs and distributors of equipment, chems and accessories that would advertise there that would not advertise in CT. I'm sure that I am not alone in my desire for quality info resources for my business.

Proposed articles: Pump rebuilding, gpm vs psi, which chem for what - the list goes on and on. Pictures and maybe a web portion with video clips of demos for members only.

(Sorry, I really do look forward to each and every issue of CT, but their focus is on manufacturers and distributors.)
 
#16
*** I have edited this post somewhat for this BBS. The thought and concepts are the same. As far as liking or disliking this board because of its posts. To be honest I am annoyed with some post but that is people and their opinion. I have no control over others and should not expect to like everything I hear or read. What really ticks me off is those few who frequent BBS read misconceptions or out right lies because it was posted by someone’s who knew the brother, sisters, cousins dog of the person it happened too and now it is posted on the BBS for some new person to read and believe.

I you want to hear what is going on with PWNA or myself, call so it can come straight from the horses mouth, take the time, call me directly and discuss. Show up at a round table and talk or go to the convention and corner one of the PWNA BOD.

You will find I have the utmost respect for the founder of this BBS. Ron Musgraves is a visionary and years ahead of his time. Mike Hughes has helped to continue to support PWNA through this board and in others areas. In fact Mike Hughes helped PWNA get on the Do-it-yourself-network a nationally televised show.

Again all the times we spend hear talking about change is less time to actually make it happen.***



Our goals have come full circle from the founding moment where EPA water management issues had to be taken up a notch by getting all facets of power washing and the authorities enforcing the codes, rules, laws onto us.

I understand many of those who are new to the industry or even first exploring PWNA want answers. I have limited time to spend and wish to make the most of what can be done. Although many who frequent the BBS expect constant reinforcement the PWNA BOD is doing there job I find as mentioned a continual rehash of the same thing over and over again.

The time it takes me to type, post and read responses when I have the opportunity I could have spoken to 5 or 10 of you.

What are we all looking for within this industry? Accountability? Credibility? Education? Leadership? To make more money?

I am all for the above.

I have to be honest, I put more credibility to an individual who takes the time to touch me personally either by phone or in person and ask me, "Doc, what are you doing about this? Why did you do that?" I think I have done, along with other BOD, everything I can to be approachable and have never told anyone don't call me I will call you. I have also returned all calls.

If you are looking to see all the Bad in PWNA its there. If you want to see all the progress and good it is there too.

Many of you are passionate about the organization or the industry and I am pleased because it means you care. Passion without direction or productivity is just that, passion.


Final thought: Do we actually think we will be remembered by all the stuff we type within this format? I would much rather tell new comers 20 years from now I was part of a passionate group of business people that changed the industry. If you are looking to change PWNA or the industry in a BBS format, I am sorry you shall be disappointed.

If you wish to talk with me I encourage the call. Lets work together to make this a better industry.



__________________
Doc Reisman
847-406-5073 office
847-922-4921 cell
 
#17
I think Doc might have crossed up Ron with Dan Flynn since they each own bb's. Doc and I talk via phone and in meetings and will continue to do so in the future. He and I both know that Dan Flynn's bb here was the first of this type format and Dan did and does an excellent job with his bb. I just want to make sure that is clear and also Dan has our respect for a job well. His bb has been in my favorites for years and will stay there.
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
#18
I guess some think the best way to get business(members) is to avoid it/them,sorry we make his butt want a dip of snuff.
 
#19
Nothing Personal Doc....

But you still have not given us anything on what I mentioned in the previous post.

1. Why does PWNA not require certification of insurance ?

2. Why does PWNA not have a truly valuble certification program ?

3. Why does PWNA not have a lobbying effort in place ?

4. Why does PWNA not check for license/state/local/federal requirements ?

All of this is pretty damn simple I would think. Why can PWNA not require all of this prior to membership ? Bottom line is money. You know it, I know it and everybody on this board knows it. If you and the board really want to make a difference then do it. Then you would solidify yourselfs in this industry as true leaders. You speak of NFPA 96 Committee and UL 1978 but who cares. Unless "your organization" has standards then what is the point. Remember PWNA is just a logo to most of us and anyone else that really see's through all the bs. Why can you PWNA members not see the bigger picture and make truly a name for itself ?

This is not personal although I know you are tired of reading my typing. But common sense is common sense. I truly can not see how PWNA can sleep at night knowing they take and give nothing back. Please answer the questions above. A reason why would be appropriate.

Again, I am sorry if you take this personal, although I sense this from you. I am just tired of hearing all about PWNA and how everyone should join for the patriotic diplomacy of Power Washing and the industry.

The industry is the actual people that go out everyday and power wash. Not the distributors that sell the product. Hell, we support them...not the other way around.

Please answer the top 4 questions.

By the way...How much are the PWNA Hats ? My old one does not fit anymore. I hope me never being a member does not hurt me getting a new one.........Just a little humor. It will be okay.

Seriously, please help us all see the picture.
 
#20
Questions 1 & 4 where going to discuss how to incoporate them into the PWNA bylaws most likely at the Covention when the BOD gets together again. #1 shouldn't be to hard to make happen because I would imagine that all states require some type of insurance for people to operate there businesses legitimately. As for question 4 there are so many states/counties/towns that may or may not require a license. This could be a problem on how to figure out what to do about this.


As for Question #2 the PWNA does have a certification program that is pretty good but to get to where your refering to the only thing that I can say about that is its going to take time because where still trying to figure out how with the limited funds we have now to make those Certifications more concrete. For now the certifications are good for learning thru classwork and great for advertisement/Marketing for your business.

As for Question #3 Lobbying takes $$$$ once again and it would most likely take a PAID PWNA member to do this because of the amount of work/time it would take to get this in motion. The Problem here is that everything we do is volunteer and nobody has a paying position within the Organization except of course of the management team. The Money that we can afford to pay them to manage the org. doesn't leave anything left over for the lobbying effort. This is unfortunate and its just another reason that the PWNA needs to raise more $$$$.

I know these answers won't satisfy you and some others but this is what I see at this time when I view all the dollars and cents that the PWNA has. Doesn't mean that we can't find ways and more volunteers to help us out to achieve some of lofty goals then can be had.

DO you want to volunteer???
 

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