Doc Reisman
PWNA President
john orr said:
3. Why does PWNA not have a lobbying effort in place ?
I had to chuckle when I read the above. We have been lobbying. It has been posted in this thread.
-
Check out this this free event.
Poll on PWNA or IKECA membership.
- Thread starter MBryan
- Start date
3. Why does PWNA not have a lobbying effort in place ?
I had to chuckle when I read the above. We have been lobbying. It has been posted in this thread.
onecallpowerw
New Member
Do I say more ?
From what I have seen on the PWNA website is that PWNA claims to have 845 members. Of course after looking up the actual members most of those listed are not "CURRENT" members. As well as the certifications, PWNA claims to have 300 or so members certified but the site is counting those that have expired certifications. So first off, all the numbers are skewed a bit and misleading to get more membership. But if you take a look at $195 per 845 members that comes to $169000.00 per year just in memberships. Then PWNA offers certifications which show lets say 300 people with certifications @ $250 per member...this comes to another $75000.00. I guess my next question would be why is it costing $244000.00 a year to run a non-profit organization that is apparently run by as you guys say all volunteers. Someone or something is wrong here. But anyway, it is none of my business how your organization is run, my point is the 4 questions that still have not received an answer.
I believe both Clean County and Doc both know that the organization could be run better and since they are both actively involved you all need to make the changes that need to be made. Maybe the guys in Virginia should stop looking for free help such as yourselfs and get off their butts and run it the right way. Somebodys making money and you guys are just the pawns led to believe you are doing the right thing for the industry by volunteering your services. Hell, thats free help in my book. I am sure you get minutes from all of the meetings weither you attend or not. Do you also get a financial summary of cost and expenditures ? This is what I would be looking at. Is the PWNA in a building that is too big for its shoe string budget ? Are you paying too much for telephone cost ? How much is the website costing you ? These questions seem to need answers. Since all I hear is money....Where is the money going ?
It is not beyond thinking that PWNA could find a person of interest to lobby for the group. I am sure $40000-$60000 would be well spent on something like this. Hell, PWNA is right across the bridge from the Capitol of the United States as well as the EPA. Come on guys.
From what I have seen on the PWNA website is that PWNA claims to have 845 members. Of course after looking up the actual members most of those listed are not "CURRENT" members. As well as the certifications, PWNA claims to have 300 or so members certified but the site is counting those that have expired certifications. So first off, all the numbers are skewed a bit and misleading to get more membership. But if you take a look at $195 per 845 members that comes to $169000.00 per year just in memberships. Then PWNA offers certifications which show lets say 300 people with certifications @ $250 per member...this comes to another $75000.00. I guess my next question would be why is it costing $244000.00 a year to run a non-profit organization that is apparently run by as you guys say all volunteers. Someone or something is wrong here. But anyway, it is none of my business how your organization is run, my point is the 4 questions that still have not received an answer.
I believe both Clean County and Doc both know that the organization could be run better and since they are both actively involved you all need to make the changes that need to be made. Maybe the guys in Virginia should stop looking for free help such as yourselfs and get off their butts and run it the right way. Somebodys making money and you guys are just the pawns led to believe you are doing the right thing for the industry by volunteering your services. Hell, thats free help in my book. I am sure you get minutes from all of the meetings weither you attend or not. Do you also get a financial summary of cost and expenditures ? This is what I would be looking at. Is the PWNA in a building that is too big for its shoe string budget ? Are you paying too much for telephone cost ? How much is the website costing you ? These questions seem to need answers. Since all I hear is money....Where is the money going ?
It is not beyond thinking that PWNA could find a person of interest to lobby for the group. I am sure $40000-$60000 would be well spent on something like this. Hell, PWNA is right across the bridge from the Capitol of the United States as well as the EPA. Come on guys.
onecallpowerw
New Member
Also Doc....
Twice now you have gotten the parties wrong here.
First off Dan Flynn is the owner of this board not Ron Musgraves.
John Orr has said nothing about the lobbying effort.
I am done with this post. You can respond but this is just another of the 200 or so threads from over the past three years that will never end until someone does something about it. I again wish PWNA success but I just dont see it happening.
Twice now you have gotten the parties wrong here.
First off Dan Flynn is the owner of this board not Ron Musgraves.
John Orr has said nothing about the lobbying effort.
I am done with this post. You can respond but this is just another of the 200 or so threads from over the past three years that will never end until someone does something about it. I again wish PWNA success but I just dont see it happening.
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CaroliProWash
New Member
Clean County said:
THAT QUESTION JUST KILLS ME! I have tried & tried to volunteer - finally when I was "invited" to do so, I had to be scrutinized. I am now on a committee and I will work with that committee to do whatever I can - but PLEASE PLEASE stop throwing out there that the organization wants volunteers because it just ain't that simple. Should be - but fact is, it's not.
Celeste
Doc Reisman
PWNA President
onecallpowerw said:
Your numbers are grossly inaccurate.
I am surprised PWNA has lasted as long as it has without your leadership.
I can see I am wasting my time. I am amazed how a group of volunteers are demonized for donating their time and resources for free to make other business people better.
I won’t return to this BBS. You have all have my numbers and e-mail.
doc.reisman@facilitec-usa.com
847-922-4921 cell
847-406-5073 office
262-639-1812 home
-----
Dan my apology for confusing your BBS with another.
Henry Bockman
Member
I think the membership is around 450 but I don't know for sure.
This thread had kind of slid a little off topic though. I was hoping for suggestions from you all on what you would like an organization do for the industry, and what would make you want to get involved. There have been a lot of great suggestions and input and I do appreciate your taking the time to post about it, regardless of whether you like PWNA or your a member or not. This doesn't have to be about the PWNA itself, it can be about any organization.
This thread had kind of slid a little off topic though. I was hoping for suggestions from you all on what you would like an organization do for the industry, and what would make you want to get involved. There have been a lot of great suggestions and input and I do appreciate your taking the time to post about it, regardless of whether you like PWNA or your a member or not. This doesn't have to be about the PWNA itself, it can be about any organization.
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onecallpowerw
New Member
What an a**
Talk about leadership.....
Anyway..I invite anyone to go to the PWNA site and go to PWNA Members/Resource page and take a look for yourself. When you punch in all members the first page says 1-10 of 845 members. What the hell do you actually do for the PWNA. Your own website says this and I find it very funny when you punch in just members that our certified, the first page says viewing 1-10 of 300 or such and then when you go to the second page it takes you to the page that says 845. Again, if my numbers are inaccurate, then the PWNA site is wrong and mis-managed. PERIOD.
I am glad you will not visit this site anymore with that type of attitude. It just shows nothing about the PWNA has ever changed for the better. They are confronted and they get pissed.
Oh and please somebody visit their site and tell me if I am wrong. I will have no problem admitting to my mistake but I can tell you as I am writing this I have looked again and there it is bottom of page (listings 1-10 of 849) this leads everyone that goes there that the PWNA has 849 members which apparently is not even close.
Talk about leadership.....
Anyway..I invite anyone to go to the PWNA site and go to PWNA Members/Resource page and take a look for yourself. When you punch in all members the first page says 1-10 of 845 members. What the hell do you actually do for the PWNA. Your own website says this and I find it very funny when you punch in just members that our certified, the first page says viewing 1-10 of 300 or such and then when you go to the second page it takes you to the page that says 845. Again, if my numbers are inaccurate, then the PWNA site is wrong and mis-managed. PERIOD.
I am glad you will not visit this site anymore with that type of attitude. It just shows nothing about the PWNA has ever changed for the better. They are confronted and they get pissed.
Oh and please somebody visit their site and tell me if I am wrong. I will have no problem admitting to my mistake but I can tell you as I am writing this I have looked again and there it is bottom of page (listings 1-10 of 849) this leads everyone that goes there that the PWNA has 849 members which apparently is not even close.
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Henry Bockman
Member
Hey Gordon,
It's a mistake with the website area as far as I can tell. It's not done to give out incorrect information or mislead anyone. It's probably tied into a database that lists everyone that's been a member of the PWNA since it started. Now before anyone jumps on the bandwagon and starts saying something about why did so many people leave.
Remember:
1. I'm just guessing about this.
2. Businesses fail all the time and that's just a fact of life when you start a company, 50% alone fail in the first year.
3. Regardless of how you feel about the PWNA if someone wants to join it's up to them. Does it have problems? sure but doesn't everything thing have it's problems?
4. I'm not the enemy here and neither is the PWNA, I just asked a question.
Let me ask another question. What would you like to see in an organization, and what types of benefits would you want for a $195 membership fee?
Remember this is $16.25 a month which is only about .54 cents a day.
This really isn't much money when you take into consideration that gas is almost $2 a gallon and how far that will get you?..
It's a mistake with the website area as far as I can tell. It's not done to give out incorrect information or mislead anyone. It's probably tied into a database that lists everyone that's been a member of the PWNA since it started. Now before anyone jumps on the bandwagon and starts saying something about why did so many people leave.
Remember:
1. I'm just guessing about this.
2. Businesses fail all the time and that's just a fact of life when you start a company, 50% alone fail in the first year.
3. Regardless of how you feel about the PWNA if someone wants to join it's up to them. Does it have problems? sure but doesn't everything thing have it's problems?
4. I'm not the enemy here and neither is the PWNA, I just asked a question.
Let me ask another question. What would you like to see in an organization, and what types of benefits would you want for a $195 membership fee?
Remember this is $16.25 a month which is only about .54 cents a day.
This really isn't much money when you take into consideration that gas is almost $2 a gallon and how far that will get you?..
Larry L.
PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
The dog leading the pack run huh,yellow dog comes to mind huh.Red dog would lead a pack into the deepest part of the woods looking for new unfounded food for the table.I think they just like running this board down b/c if its out spoken members which are not scared to wade though thorns to get what they want.A leader should not run from, they should wade the deepest part of the channel defending its fallowers.Who would want to fallower a leader that runs every time they cann't handle the unknown.It doesn't take much to piss them off or make their butt want a dip of snuff when they are cornered with no answers.Try Try Try Try and TRY again if your a leader nomatter ifen you don't like chocit,I can understand tho when your pack doesn't back up the leaders.
This post is not meant to hurt but wake up call...
This post is not meant to hurt but wake up call...
Dave Olson
New Member
Go look at the list folks! Since many of these members have multiple certifications they are listed several times! Or am I the only one that noticed [hello]
Dave Olson
Dave Olson
onecallpowerw
New Member
I want Justice......lol
Henry,
No one thinks you, Doc or anybody is the enemy. You should know better than to think that I would have something against "you". Anyway, the post started with the question of having stricter requirements to be a member of PWNA or IKECA.
I know absolutely nothing about IKECA and I believe this association is mainly for Kitchen Exhaust Cleaners and Fire control systems. But, yes, I do feel PWNA should require certain things before they take your money. If PWNA ever wants to gain any legitimatcy for what they stand for then they should have certain basic requirements to join. But PWNA has always portrait's itself that if you are not a member then you are nobody in this business. How is it that PWNA can say:
The Power Washers of North America is the recognized leader in developing and communicating the highest standards in ethical business practices, environmental awareness, and safety through continuing education and active representation of the membership. PWNA educated and trained contractors raise the level of professionalism and value to their customers.
When all the individual or company has to do is send PWNA $195. This is kind of bs in my view. How bout if a customer some how goes on the internet and comes across PWNA website and notices that I am not on there. Then they hire another company only because they paid PWNA $195. Better watch out for lawsuits if that happens. Its bs, especially since they make the above statement on their website. How can they say they are the recognized leader ? Recognized by what 450 people out of say 50,000 power washers ? This I believe is what upsets allot of people. Then when members are confronted they just get like Doc.
What I would like to see is what I have already touched upon. ****Requirements****True Certification****Insurance****License****
A company or individual should show proof of Insurance, proof of license, depending on what state, and then pay the $195 only to take a certification written exam with an outside demostration on their abilities. The $195 would be required to take the certification. Or better yet....Make the $195 an application fee and then require the certification at the $250. If you fail then you are not a member until you pass. Only after successful pass grade would you be certified.
1. Show proof of insurance, license.
2. Pay $195 application fee
3. Pay $250 for certification on that specific type of cleaning - Written followed by field demo
4. Then you are certified PWNA member
If you fail then only require a $50 retest fee.
This is what I would like to see as a start. Understand, that this is not rocket science. It just pisses me off to know that PWNA takes monies and gives nothing "really" back to the industry as they say they do.
Henry,
No one thinks you, Doc or anybody is the enemy. You should know better than to think that I would have something against "you". Anyway, the post started with the question of having stricter requirements to be a member of PWNA or IKECA.
I know absolutely nothing about IKECA and I believe this association is mainly for Kitchen Exhaust Cleaners and Fire control systems. But, yes, I do feel PWNA should require certain things before they take your money. If PWNA ever wants to gain any legitimatcy for what they stand for then they should have certain basic requirements to join. But PWNA has always portrait's itself that if you are not a member then you are nobody in this business. How is it that PWNA can say:
The Power Washers of North America is the recognized leader in developing and communicating the highest standards in ethical business practices, environmental awareness, and safety through continuing education and active representation of the membership. PWNA educated and trained contractors raise the level of professionalism and value to their customers.
When all the individual or company has to do is send PWNA $195. This is kind of bs in my view. How bout if a customer some how goes on the internet and comes across PWNA website and notices that I am not on there. Then they hire another company only because they paid PWNA $195. Better watch out for lawsuits if that happens. Its bs, especially since they make the above statement on their website. How can they say they are the recognized leader ? Recognized by what 450 people out of say 50,000 power washers ? This I believe is what upsets allot of people. Then when members are confronted they just get like Doc.
What I would like to see is what I have already touched upon. ****Requirements****True Certification****Insurance****License****
A company or individual should show proof of Insurance, proof of license, depending on what state, and then pay the $195 only to take a certification written exam with an outside demostration on their abilities. The $195 would be required to take the certification. Or better yet....Make the $195 an application fee and then require the certification at the $250. If you fail then you are not a member until you pass. Only after successful pass grade would you be certified.
1. Show proof of insurance, license.
2. Pay $195 application fee
3. Pay $250 for certification on that specific type of cleaning - Written followed by field demo
4. Then you are certified PWNA member
If you fail then only require a $50 retest fee.
This is what I would like to see as a start. Understand, that this is not rocket science. It just pisses me off to know that PWNA takes monies and gives nothing "really" back to the industry as they say they do.
onecallpowerw
New Member
Also noticed
Harrah's Casino listed twice as a member. Now why in the world or better yet how in the world does Harrah's Casino become or need to be a member ? Just curious. But lets not forget.........PWNA is the recognized leader.
I know the spelling but who cares.......
Harrah's Casino listed twice as a member. Now why in the world or better yet how in the world does Harrah's Casino become or need to be a member ? Just curious. But lets not forget.........PWNA is the recognized leader.
I know the spelling but who cares.......
Ron,
Running from legitimate questions with your tail between your legs, considering you’re the president is probably why the PWNA is the way it is. That's not good leadership. These posts pop up all the time and the questions never get answered. If you would answer the questions in detail, people would be more willing to join and get involved.
All you have to do is explain the truth and prove it. Then contractor will flock to the PWNA
You claim you’re sick of people reading misinformation on these bbs, well instead of running off. Answer all the question. Show all who’s watching how legitimate your organization is. Turn the misinformation into accurate information. People will say what they think and what they think they know until proven wrong. Tell us how it is and back it up.
Where is all the money going?????????????
Why aren’t paid or non paid members calling prospects (potential members) from the phone book or an online directory?
Also a non profit organization, (I think) has to show anyone who wants to see, were the money is going. Its public record isn't It.?
I would love know why your listing 845 members when that’s not the case. It's false advertisement to obtain member unethically if you ask me.
It's also a benefit; you have members working for free. That means more money to benefit the organization. Maybe if everyone works for free, that's the problem.
Pay a few people to build the organization. Someone should be on the phone contacting every pressure washer, window cleaner and distributor they can find in the USA introducing them to the PWNA. Instead no one knows where the money goes and if they do know. Nobody has ever answered that question, over the years I've been around
Numbers are powerful, that means more money and better benefit for its members. Like group insurance, national advertising and so on. People join organizations, for what’s in it for them. I’m tired of hearing join and make a difference, help grow the organization and the industry.
These bbs are your only source of potential customers at this point and you don’t take advantage of it. D elco started it all and if it wasn’t for them and this bbs. You probably wouldn’t have an organization.
Tell us how many members you currently have, which will give everyone an idea of the revenue. Tell us other than membership fees, how are you and how much are you bringing in.
Numbers don’t lie! The money from 845 members is plenty to double the size of the PWNA each year. Who manages the money? What are the volunteers doing? Get them on the phones calling prospects.
Please list the benefits of joining the PWNA. Other than telling your customers you’re a member. I can go on and on but I’m sure I'm wasting my time. You dog the bbs, but this has been free advertising for you for years. We get new members everyday. If you look at where they heard of us; they mostly find us via search engines. Those are fresh people. Plus you have the on lookers who don’t register. This site had over 3 million page views last year.
This is a platform to set the record straight, not a place were people get misinformed my friend. You’re lucky I even allow all the free publicity. You should be taking advantage of it. Not crying your not coming around any longer. A president needs back bone and if you truly have a good and non-corrupt organization. Let the world know. The floor is yours.
Many others have used this very bbs to there advantage. Most have done it UN ethically though. Like your buddy Ron M took all the members from an old bbs I had and from this one and marketed the hell out of them until they joined his bbs. Instead of working hard and earning his own members.
After that, all the rest followed. They acted like they know everything 1 or 2 years into the business. Bitching about why we can’t say this or that and complaining about advertising and blah blah blah,
Then they open up a bbs and start selling stuff?????????????????????? So my point is. At this point you have my permission to take advantage of this forum to win over new members. Just like the others have.
Tell me where you can find a better place. Everyone who comes here or goes to any of the other bbs, are 100% potential customers/members. Talking about targeted marketing!
I think the biggest questions of all are. How many members and how much revenue is generated each year. And were does it go? Personally I would join right now if I had that information. But at this point I feel that it’s a corrupt organization from the top to everyone else that makes money every year from it. I hope I’m wrong and hope you prove me wrong (I doubt you’ll try).
After all these years, how can you not have a solid organization with true benefits? If things where on the up and up and if things are managed correctly. It should be thriving by now. The turn over rate has to be pretty high. Most contractors I know (including me) stay for a year or don’t join at all. That’s a problem Ron. Then you want everyone to be hush hush on the bbs so the new guy gets hooked.
Come on man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Contractors benefit more from this forum, than the PWNA. Maybe I should charge 250 or what ever it is per member per year.
You’re always welcome here
Running from legitimate questions with your tail between your legs, considering you’re the president is probably why the PWNA is the way it is. That's not good leadership. These posts pop up all the time and the questions never get answered. If you would answer the questions in detail, people would be more willing to join and get involved.
All you have to do is explain the truth and prove it. Then contractor will flock to the PWNA
You claim you’re sick of people reading misinformation on these bbs, well instead of running off. Answer all the question. Show all who’s watching how legitimate your organization is. Turn the misinformation into accurate information. People will say what they think and what they think they know until proven wrong. Tell us how it is and back it up.
Where is all the money going?????????????
Why aren’t paid or non paid members calling prospects (potential members) from the phone book or an online directory?
Also a non profit organization, (I think) has to show anyone who wants to see, were the money is going. Its public record isn't It.?
I would love know why your listing 845 members when that’s not the case. It's false advertisement to obtain member unethically if you ask me.
It's also a benefit; you have members working for free. That means more money to benefit the organization. Maybe if everyone works for free, that's the problem.
Pay a few people to build the organization. Someone should be on the phone contacting every pressure washer, window cleaner and distributor they can find in the USA introducing them to the PWNA. Instead no one knows where the money goes and if they do know. Nobody has ever answered that question, over the years I've been around
Numbers are powerful, that means more money and better benefit for its members. Like group insurance, national advertising and so on. People join organizations, for what’s in it for them. I’m tired of hearing join and make a difference, help grow the organization and the industry.
These bbs are your only source of potential customers at this point and you don’t take advantage of it. D elco started it all and if it wasn’t for them and this bbs. You probably wouldn’t have an organization.
Tell us how many members you currently have, which will give everyone an idea of the revenue. Tell us other than membership fees, how are you and how much are you bringing in.
Numbers don’t lie! The money from 845 members is plenty to double the size of the PWNA each year. Who manages the money? What are the volunteers doing? Get them on the phones calling prospects.
Please list the benefits of joining the PWNA. Other than telling your customers you’re a member. I can go on and on but I’m sure I'm wasting my time. You dog the bbs, but this has been free advertising for you for years. We get new members everyday. If you look at where they heard of us; they mostly find us via search engines. Those are fresh people. Plus you have the on lookers who don’t register. This site had over 3 million page views last year.
This is a platform to set the record straight, not a place were people get misinformed my friend. You’re lucky I even allow all the free publicity. You should be taking advantage of it. Not crying your not coming around any longer. A president needs back bone and if you truly have a good and non-corrupt organization. Let the world know. The floor is yours.
Many others have used this very bbs to there advantage. Most have done it UN ethically though. Like your buddy Ron M took all the members from an old bbs I had and from this one and marketed the hell out of them until they joined his bbs. Instead of working hard and earning his own members.
After that, all the rest followed. They acted like they know everything 1 or 2 years into the business. Bitching about why we can’t say this or that and complaining about advertising and blah blah blah,
Then they open up a bbs and start selling stuff?????????????????????? So my point is. At this point you have my permission to take advantage of this forum to win over new members. Just like the others have.
Tell me where you can find a better place. Everyone who comes here or goes to any of the other bbs, are 100% potential customers/members. Talking about targeted marketing!
I think the biggest questions of all are. How many members and how much revenue is generated each year. And were does it go? Personally I would join right now if I had that information. But at this point I feel that it’s a corrupt organization from the top to everyone else that makes money every year from it. I hope I’m wrong and hope you prove me wrong (I doubt you’ll try).
After all these years, how can you not have a solid organization with true benefits? If things where on the up and up and if things are managed correctly. It should be thriving by now. The turn over rate has to be pretty high. Most contractors I know (including me) stay for a year or don’t join at all. That’s a problem Ron. Then you want everyone to be hush hush on the bbs so the new guy gets hooked.
Come on man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Contractors benefit more from this forum, than the PWNA. Maybe I should charge 250 or what ever it is per member per year.
You’re always welcome here
Henry Bockman
Member
onecallpowerw said:
Personally I think these are great ideas and I've mentioned them before on a poll on PWNA, to see how everyone felt about it. I do know that many states don't require a state license for power washing so some would have to show proof of that if it was their states policy.
I think Doc said that the board had discussed this but I don't know what they decided or what the end result was. Hopefully it will be addressed again soon because I think it's important to set a standard within the PWNA expecially if were supposed to be setting the industry standards. A new president will be putting out his plans in a couple months and maybe that will be one of them.
The items were discussing are the bare basics of running a legit company to begin with so I really don't see it being a problem. As the poll here has shown it may even increase membership in the long run.
Sure there will be some guys that balk and refuse to get insurance but let's be realistic, they probably won't be in business long anyway as much as everyone likes to sue these days. As far as how this could be implemented, the current members could be grandfathered in until they were up for renewal and the the new guidlines would be implemented. This way it would not cause a sudden rule or drop in membership by those that refused to meet the barest of business basics.
This is just my opinion of course but I think the PWNA and it's members should consider it.
Michael T
New Member
Dan Flynn - Great Post!
I did a little system check on the numbers. I picked TX because I live and work here.
73 Total Listing
47 Individually Listed company's or Individual members
9 Company's with multiple listings
8 Duplicate listings.
Now some of these listings were duplicated when they were certified .
The way I figure it in TX there is only 64% accuracy because of the duplications.
Using this number there should be about 543 +/- members overall. Now there is probably a margin of error but Ill bet you it isnt much.
Now Ive been a member of PWNA and payed the $$ to be "Certified". Actually Doc and I were certified in the same class in Baltimore. He was a measly subcontractor for Ducts Unlimited them. As they say "You've come a long way baby".
Being out in the real world, Nobody cares if you are Certified or not. Knowledge and Craftmenship is what people are interested in. Im a member of a local CoC and actually get more bang for my buck there. What PWNA appears to me is a club and a venue to market your products. What was the final straw which really turned me off was the continued push for a Cruise. Slick broshures, multiple mailings, bla, bla, bla. I joined to learn, not be marketed to spend a week on a cruise with other PW individuals and probably pay for some BOD member to go free. Total waste of dues. Really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I did a little system check on the numbers. I picked TX because I live and work here.
73 Total Listing
47 Individually Listed company's or Individual members
9 Company's with multiple listings
8 Duplicate listings.
Now some of these listings were duplicated when they were certified .
The way I figure it in TX there is only 64% accuracy because of the duplications.
Using this number there should be about 543 +/- members overall. Now there is probably a margin of error but Ill bet you it isnt much.
Now Ive been a member of PWNA and payed the $$ to be "Certified". Actually Doc and I were certified in the same class in Baltimore. He was a measly subcontractor for Ducts Unlimited them. As they say "You've come a long way baby".
Being out in the real world, Nobody cares if you are Certified or not. Knowledge and Craftmenship is what people are interested in. Im a member of a local CoC and actually get more bang for my buck there. What PWNA appears to me is a club and a venue to market your products. What was the final straw which really turned me off was the continued push for a Cruise. Slick broshures, multiple mailings, bla, bla, bla. I joined to learn, not be marketed to spend a week on a cruise with other PW individuals and probably pay for some BOD member to go free. Total waste of dues. Really left a bad taste in my mouth.
Clean County
New Member
What works for some doesn't work for others. The PWNA works for me because I allow it to thru the methods that I know how and its just not going to work for Onecallpowerwash.
The PWNA membership totals change every month. As of last month they had aprox 430 members with around 410 members being contractors and the remaining amount of aprox 20 are contractors/Vendors like Sunbrite is or just flat out Vendors like XXXXXXXXXX. The contractors pay $195/yr and the Vendors pay .$395. The contractors/vendor members may be paying $295/yr. If you bang all those numbers together you get in the neighborhood of $86,000/YR.
Between the management team that the PWNA pays for and the mailings,phone calls, The Cleaner Times Mag, The water works mag., that $86000 is cut down substantially. The Convention is the end result of the time and effort put in by the volunteers. The Convention is in place for its members and non members to enjoy and even though they pay extra to go the Convention the end result is that the Convention is lucky if it breaks even. So in essence its not really a money maker but its there for us to experience. The one big problem that the PWNA has is the shortage of money from what I can see. Thank God we have the volunteers that we do. I don't know where this Organization would be without them.
Lastly it a not for profit organization and there is no money made by any of the volunteers. I will always ask people to volunteer if they are PWNA members. If they get scrutinize by members or non members don't worry about it. Just keep on pushing forward. Scrutiny is just part of the job. I get scrutinize alot and its mostly by non members because even though I have 2 rigs running on most jobs and at least 3 workers including myself I do have my other job. Some look at it as why is there a "Partimer" on the board. I don't let that bother me.
To each its own. I own 5 licensed guns and I don't support the NRA and they are an extremely powerful group. I don't support them because I just don't need them so they can not work for me.........
The PWNA membership totals change every month. As of last month they had aprox 430 members with around 410 members being contractors and the remaining amount of aprox 20 are contractors/Vendors like Sunbrite is or just flat out Vendors like XXXXXXXXXX. The contractors pay $195/yr and the Vendors pay .$395. The contractors/vendor members may be paying $295/yr. If you bang all those numbers together you get in the neighborhood of $86,000/YR.
Between the management team that the PWNA pays for and the mailings,phone calls, The Cleaner Times Mag, The water works mag., that $86000 is cut down substantially. The Convention is the end result of the time and effort put in by the volunteers. The Convention is in place for its members and non members to enjoy and even though they pay extra to go the Convention the end result is that the Convention is lucky if it breaks even. So in essence its not really a money maker but its there for us to experience. The one big problem that the PWNA has is the shortage of money from what I can see. Thank God we have the volunteers that we do. I don't know where this Organization would be without them.
Lastly it a not for profit organization and there is no money made by any of the volunteers. I will always ask people to volunteer if they are PWNA members. If they get scrutinize by members or non members don't worry about it. Just keep on pushing forward. Scrutiny is just part of the job. I get scrutinize alot and its mostly by non members because even though I have 2 rigs running on most jobs and at least 3 workers including myself I do have my other job. Some look at it as why is there a "Partimer" on the board. I don't let that bother me.
To each its own. I own 5 licensed guns and I don't support the NRA and they are an extremely powerful group. I don't support them because I just don't need them so they can not work for me.........
That my friend is why we are not members of your PWNA group!!Clean County said:
Thats the point we have been making John about the pwna............ You just made the whole argument of being a member hold true to most of our believes.
I elected to stay outa this one since I was the main argument on the last 30 conversations we had on this. However: You guys have failed miserably in answering Onecall's questions........... just like you failed to answer mine in the past. If you go back and look they are pretty much the same questions asked in the past and it goes unanswered. When the going gets to tough for you guys you stop typing or get into a masive name calling and bb bashing.
WHo would want to be apart of that?
It is a shame you guys cant make anything outa that much money.......... I tell `ya what send me all those dues from your (dublicate) members and I will show you how to grow.
Changes>> stop having the boat ride where you go get drunk and write off your trip. dont worry about who is certified and how much money you can make by making them have the certificate. You are not going to change us.
YOu dont need a certificate or a membership beside your name to be in this business PERIOD.
YOu can have the "title" of being a PWNA member and still dont know how to get bubble gum off a sidewalk.
You can have that same "title" and not know how to wash a truck.
The list goes on >>>>>
Just go to work and clean something (pwna) Stop worrying about everybody else.
Clean County
New Member
Dan S said:
Dan S.
That is why I said that and you got it perfectly. We've had this conversation so many times in the past that now we can understand each other dead on...Who would have guessed